Single Serves Podcast

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Single Serves is a podcast where we interview experts on single issues of interest to architects and designers. The thought-provoking ideas shared here are intended to inspire our listeners to become well-rounded entrepreneurs who are the leaders of their field.

Episodes

Tuesday Jun 04, 2024

Single Serves ep. 410 - Landis on the Power of Art in Public Spaces and Placemaking

Tuesday Jun 04, 2024

My guest for this episode is Emma Landis.

She is the founder and principal of Richan Art, an art advisory focused on collections management for corporate and private collectors, as well as public art commissioning for some of Canada’s largest developers.

Emma holds an MA and a PhD in art history from Western University and University of Victoria Respectively.

In this episode, we are discussing her mission to build a greater appreciation for and understanding of the arts among various stakeholders, such as collectors, for whom she seeks unique and meaningful pieces; developers and institutional clients; as well as students through the development of a mentorship program at OCAD University and the Etobicoke School of the Arts.

About the podcast: Single Serves is a podcast where we interview experts on single issues of interest to architects and designers. The thought-provoking ideas shared here are intended to inspire our listeners to become well-rounded entrepreneurs who are the leaders of their field.

Tuesday May 14, 2024

Single Serves ep. 409 - Bogdan on The Crisis of the Architectural Profession

Tuesday May 14, 2024

Oana Bogdan is the founder of Brussels-based practice &bogdan (founded 2007). In 2016, she was Secretary of State for cultural heritage in the Romanian Government (her country of origin) and has also been involved in many industry organisations and businesses in addition to her own practice, too numerous to list them all here.

In her practice she promotes cooperation and operates from the “follow me I’m right behind you” type of leadership and is on a mission to tackle the challenges of the architectural profession in the 21st century, especially in the belgian context, but many of these lessons apply to architecture in other locales, which often suffer from the same problems.

In this episode, we are discussing what Oana calls "the cris of the architectural profession", as we connected over a shared desire to see some of the challenges that architects face in many jurisdictions tackled and solved once and for all.

Monday Mar 25, 2024

Single Serves ep. 408 - Cohen-Murison On The Intersection of Tech and Design

Monday Mar 25, 2024

Rachel Cohen-Murison stands at the forefront as an architect and entrepreneur, embodying the fresh wave of innovative designers who are shattering the norms of the conventional practice. They're adopting a more entrepreneurial approach to architecture, strategically creating value by eliminating market pain points.

Rachel and her contemporaries undeniably signify the brilliant future of architecture. As digital natives, they're unchained from the typical constraints of traditional practice.

As Jake Rudin astutely pointed out in a previous episode, this groundbreaking approach solidifies that architects hold a unique position to tackle the pressing issues of tomorrow. They're equipped to devise innovative solutions beyond the reach of other professions.

Discover how Rachel is trailblazing this path.

Interview transcript (unedited):

Tuesday Jan 09, 2024

Single Serves ep. 407 - Brill on Housing Innovation

Tuesday Jan 09, 2024

Kyle Brill is an interdisciplinary designer and systems thinker born and raised in Toronto. He studied architecture at the University of Waterloo, graduating with his masters in 2016 with honours. Kyle began his career working at architecture and product design firms in Toronto, London, and New York City and became passionate about housing issues and urban development. He has a keen interest in understanding the social, economic and political dimensions of how we build, and thinks architects and designers should take a much more active role in developing our cities, which is what we're going to talk about today. Outside of his professional life Kyle is an avid home cook, photographer, and writer, with a mild obsession with history and science fiction.

Tuesday Oct 31, 2023

Single Serves ep. 406 - Wainwright on Sales as Conversations

Tuesday Oct 31, 2023

Mark Wainwright is the founder and Principal Consultant at Wainwright Insight, a sales consultancy for professional services firms. After over 20 years working with various professional services firms, Mark created Wainwright Insight to address the lack of sales expertise in said firms, and to help experts sell better. Mark bills himself as a "Part-time Sales Manager for Part-time Salespeople" like architects, engineers, and financial advisors who need to get organized, build future sales leaders, and grow their firms.

Other related episodes mentioned in this interview: 401 w/ Tyler Suomala and 405 w/ Kim Seldon.

Tuesday Sep 26, 2023

Single Serves ep. 405 - Seldon on Running a Profitable Business

Tuesday Sep 26, 2023

Kimberley Seldon is the founder of Kimberley Seldon Design Group, an interior design firm with offices in Toronto and Los Angeles.

In addition to her design practice, she runs Business of Design, an online learning platform she started to help other professionals in the design field to become financially successful, with the stated goals that designers running their own practices should aim at making 6-figures salaries.

I wanted to have Kimberley on the podcast to discuss how she and others have accomplished that, as financial viability should be the foundation of any design business.

Tuesday Aug 29, 2023

Single Serves ep. 404 - Derringer on Web3, Crypto and the Metaverse

Tuesday Aug 29, 2023

Jaime Derringer is a serial entrepreneur, artist and Founder of the popular design platform Design Milk and Clever podcast. She is also an artist living in San Diego, CA.

Jaime and I recorded another podcast a few years back that appeared on Truth is Golden in 2018 (ep.106 - "The Milk That Never Spoils"). We talked then about her and life up to that point. Go check it out if you'd like to learn more about Jaime.

Today we're reconvening to talk about all things metaverse, web3 and crypto, as Jaime had now taken the next step in her professional life after selling Design Milk to Ahalife in 2019.

Tuesday Jul 25, 2023

Single Serves ep. 403 - Rudin on The Careers Outside of Architecture

Tuesday Jul 25, 2023

Jake Rudin is a co-founder of the design career consulting company Out of Architecture, a career consulting firm helping architects exploring the value of their skills both in and out of the architectural profession. He also works as a member of the Adidas Advanced Creation Technologies team - fabricating, designing, digitizing, model making, and exploring all aspects of footwear.

I invited Jake to have a conversation so he can share his insights on challenges facing practicing and non-practicing architects alike and what once can do about it.

Tuesday Mar 21, 2023

Single Serves ep. 402 - Peterson on Socially Fit Housing

Tuesday Mar 21, 2023

In this episode, we're going to dive into the topic of housing, this time of the "socially fit" kind. I know, I know, we've been talking about it a lot on this podcast, but it's a critical issue that still doesn't get the attention it truly deserves, while its root causes - by now broadly acknowledged and agreed upon by most - are still not being addressed aggressively enough to make a dent in the issue.

Joining me for this episode is David Peterson, a Toronto-based architect and educator who's passionate about developing socially fit housing that promotes the flourishing of its inhabitants. David doesn't just talk the talk - he's actually designed and developed multiple housing projects that are both desirable and well-received. One of my personal favourites is The Ritchie, a multi-family building in Toronto's west end that David designed and is beloved by its inhabitants.

David and I discussed socially fit housing. We'll explore potential solutions to the housing shortage and offer insights into how we can create housing that truly benefits its inhabitants.

So, if you're curious about innovative housing solutions and want to hear more, tune in!

Tuesday Feb 14, 2023

Single Serves ep. 401 - Suomala on Attracting High-Quality Clients

Tuesday Feb 14, 2023

Tyler Suomala is a serial-learner obsessed with helping architects optimize all things business development, sales, marketing, and operations. Before transitioning into Business Development at Monograph, Tyler worked in large and small architecture offices and also ran his own architectural design studio for 2.5 years. He holds a B.S. in Architecture from the University of Michigan and a M. Arch from Princeton University.

Tyler is currently creating a community of architects at TylerTactics.com, where he sends one quick & powerful tactic to help architects attract high-quality clients every Sunday morning.

Wednesday Dec 07, 2022

Single Serves ep. 318 - Bain + Lane on the Metaverse and Web3

Wednesday Dec 07, 2022

Do you ever wonder what the hell the metaverse and web3 are? If so, you're not alone. We partnered with Canadian Interiors' Bevel podcast to produce this interview with Tessa Bain and Andrew Lane, co-founders of Digby, a consultancy that helps companies navigate the complexities of these new technologies and why people in the design industry should become early adopters.

Our goal was to decipher these new technologies to help you make sense of it. This is your metaverse and web3 101 crash course.

Tuesday Nov 15, 2022

Single Serves ep. 317 - Melia on Good Design

Tuesday Nov 15, 2022

James Melia is a British designer working in the fields of industrial design, branding, packaging visualization a UX/UI. A keen observer of human behaviours, he has been interested in unusual solutions to common problems for as long as he can remember.

Since founding the studio Blond in 2015, he's worked with a variety of clients looking to disrupt their respective industries.

In this episode we're talking design with James, along with some of his work and outlook to the future.

Transcript below edited for clarity and brevity:

RVLTR:

James Melia is a British designer working in the fields of industrial design, branding, packaging, visualization, and UX and UI. A keen observer of human behaviors, he has been interested in unusual solutions to common problems for as long as he can remember. Since founding the studio Blond in 2015, he's worked with a variety of clients looking to disrupt their respective industries. Today we're going to talk design with James, along with some of his work and outlook on to the future. So thank you very much, James, for being on the show.

James Melia:

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

RVLTR:

So can you tell us who you are and what you do in your own words, in three sentences or less?

James Melia:

Three sentences or less, okay. Challenge. We are a industrial design agency based in Central London. We primarily focus on industrial design, or we do have offshoots of that, visualization and UI and branding, which you've already mentioned. And fundamentally, as an agency, we focus on bringing a really deep-rooted narrative to the products that we produce, and focus on a very high level of quality as well.

RVLTR:

So when did you figure out that you wanted to become a designer?

James Melia:

Good question. I think I fell into it. I think I was kind of attracted to being a graphic designer, at school, and not for anything more than just being relatively superficial, and thinking it was quite a cool profession, and seeing that wearing suits and doing something that is maybe not conventional in this sort of academic sense. And then as I went through the school process, I started to realize I enjoyed making things and bringing 3D objects to life, your DT lessons and things like that you have in the UK. I don't know what you call it in the US, or in Canada. And then I went to university with the intention of being a BSC engineer, basically, a product engineer, design and engineering focus. Did a foundation course in engineering path. Surprisingly, maybe not surprisingly, and then realized though, at the end of that, that really wasn't for me. It was too technically focused. As much as I really enjoyed the technical element, I'm much more driven and drawn to the creative side of industrial design. So I mean it was a really lucky and fortunate path that led me to the creative industrial design profession.

RVLTR:

So we ... let's talk a bit about design in more general terms. We hear a lot about the idea of good design, and I personally have an opinion on what that would be. What is good design in your opinion?

James Melia:

Big question. A good design fundamentally has to consider sustainability. When we're talking about designing 3D products, which you're doing all the time, inevitably these things have a lifespan. So as an industrial designer you have to consider sustainability in everything that you do. That's the first thing. I mean it, almost frustratingly, entering design awards recently I've noticed that there's always a category for "sustainable design." It shouldn't be a category. It shouldn't even be a separate topic. It should just be embedded in every single one of the other categories. So that's the first thing.

But to achieve that, maybe it's not always just about the materials you use. Sometimes it comes down to how you actually manage the aesthetics, and assuring there's no aesthetic obsolescence that is designed into something. So not following trends. And that's a big thing for Blond, my agency. We don't necessarily follow trends. I mean, obviously we're aware of them. We don't intentionally disregard them, we just are not drawn to them or follow them from a creative point of view. We design things and embed kind of an aesthetic and a narrative to our products that is really driven by the user's requirements, functionally, aesthetically. And from that you naturally get a product that has inherent longevity to it, because it's useful, and aesthetically it's not going to go out of date. So for me that's a good product. Yeah, I think so.

RVLTR:

Yeah, that makes sense. One of my favorite product brands is OXO. I'm sure you're familiar with them.

James Melia:

Yeah, they do good work.

RVLTR:

And while their products are pretty cheap, both in terms of price and quality, meaning that some of them eventually end up breaking, but I find myself going back to it because they're so well-designed from the perspective of the user experience and how they fit in your hands, because they're kitchen utensils, right. So I think a lot of the qualities you've described are in products like that.

So when you start designing a product, you're given a brief, how do you go about making sure that all the things you've described are part of it, and what are some of the challenges you face when you're coming up with a new product for a client?

James Melia:

It's interesting, to circle back to your first point, that you mentioned OXO. Because we worked with one of their biggest competitors here in the UK, only really slightly larger, called Joseph Joseph. We designed a water bottle for them recently. They have, I would say, a very similar stance and benefits to their consumers. They're always looking for a USP that's actually beneficial. It's not just a gimmick. It really does solve a problem. And so working with them has been really enjoyable, because they have a certain synergy, I think, in the way we approach work. But to answer your second question, it depends upon the client, depends upon the brief. I mean every brief is so different. Sometimes you can get a paragraph from a large corporation and 20 pages from one certain client. And the first thing you need to do is to really, really define what the brief is and sort of collaborate on that.

First of all, there's something that people don't necessarily talk about, they talk about doing their design work, but sometimes just collaborating on the brief to an extent is a really important step. Really understanding what the client wants, whether there's any way to make it better and to increase business strategy, or increase the way that we manage to benefit the user. From there, what we would do is look to conduct, with everything we do, depending on budget, obviously ... it scales up and down, but a holistic bit of product strategy, and obviously research before that. And that allows us to identify market opportunities from a commercial sense, but more importantly functional requirements, and often functional requirements that the user wouldn't know they even had, that help us answer problems and create a really meaningful and useful product.

RVLTR:

And so a big part of design, both industrial and I think in any other area of design, architecture, interior design, graphic, is really to take the brief, kind of study it, do your own research, so to speak, and see if you can come up with maybe a better brief or better solution to the client's problem. So that's pretty well understood by designers. Do you ever walk away from a client because you don't understand the brief, or the brief doesn't mesh with what your firm's about, or you always try to maybe show them a different way or a different path, or maybe an entirely different solution?

James Melia:

All of the above, actually, to an extent. I would never walk away from a brief if I don't understand it. We always make sure that we understood, first of all, before walking away. But we've turned ... we regularly turn down work. Just yesterday we turned down work for a vaping product. I mean, I don't know, for us as an agency, that my staff and me would want to be involved in anything nicotine-related. That's the first thing, has to gel with the studio, and what everyone's happy working on. You got to think about your staff as well as overheads and just your general morals. Obviously, you have to be in quite a fortunate position like we are to be able to turn down work like that, which is generally quite highly paid.

We will turn down work after collaborating on a brief if it looks like ... if we think that it's not going to be successful or actually bring benefit, or have a reason to exist. That's the big one. It doesn't have a reason to exist, essentially it's purely commercial, and just for financial sake. We've turned down a few projects eventually, after sort of fleshing out the brief of the client, because it is clear that it will potentially be landfill waste in a year or so's time, and sold cheaply, and just made to make money primarily. Unless it has some kind of drive behind it to better human existence or make people's lives better or easier, then we wouldn't necessarily take it on.

RVLTR:

Yeah, that makes sense. So can you speak a little bit to maybe your design heroes? Who are the people you respect, both in the industrial design world, maybe outside as well?

James Melia:

I'd been asked this question before, and is it maybe a cliche answer, but I've always enjoyed Dieter Rams' work and still do, particularly from an industrial design point of view, particularly after Jonathan Ive and the Apple team were heavily inspired by his work. He's been popularized and almost a household name, I guess, but he's still an influence to some extent. There are several studios that have been operating for 20-plus years that I respect, and their continual output of good-quality work. And then outside the industrial design world, or maybe crossing between industrial design and architecture, I've always enjoyed the likes of Jan Echolson and Bruno Munari, just from a design thinking point of view, and their ability to be able to create long-lasting objects, really elegant analog objects, that will always be enjoyed for generations.

RVLTR:

Yeah, and it's interesting what you say about long-lasting objects that don't become obsolete. And you've touched on that a couple of times throughout this conversation. It seems like that's a common thread across your work, but are there other kind of design principles or a kind of philosophy or common threads that you can talk about, that are very important to you?

James Melia:

Could you provide an example, potentially, and then I will ...

RVLTR:

Well, similar to what you just said about obsolescence, designing objects that people will enjoy for a long time, and not just discard because two years from now it looks like it's out of date, or it's been replaced by the latest gizmo. So maybe to reframe that question, speak about if you have any kind of principles that you can lay out that you have written down, or your philosophy about design and how you approach each project.

James Melia:

There's three main principles that make up what we call conscious design. These are, first of all, we would say that every product needs to be useful. So it should be ... have a purpose and a positive impact on the user's life. If it's not useful, what's the point of it existing? Second, needs to be deliberate. So no detail is superfluous, nothing. You can see that in our work. Everything's been stripped back. I quite often say to the designers, when I have design reviews, "Why do we have these three separate details in this one product? Can we split it across and make sure that there is a particular meaning for that detail existing?" And I think that bestows all the work that we do with minimalism, which is not intentional from an aesthetic point of view, but actually from a design story narrative point of view. And then thirdly, we like to think of it as aware, so needs to fit within the world we inhabit, and not just designed for today, but designed to be passed down and enjoyed by future generations. So again, touching upon the point that you ... the reoccurring theme of the podcast so far.

RVLTR:

I'm personally fascinated with objects that are designed predominantly because of how they function. I'm thinking about cameras or motorcycles or cars. There's room for a bit of design, but by the way of ... because they function a certain way and ... when you use a camera, the shutter is always more or less in the same place, and you hold it more or less the same way. There's some paradigms that you can't really change or it might be too disruptive to the way people use the object to change. What's your thought on that, and can some of those principles be applied to maybe less functional objects that have a little bit more room for design itself? Because I'm always fascinated ... I'm a photographer, so I ... cameras are, no matter what brand you use, it's always kind of the same way. And I understand why, but I'd love to hear your take on that.

James Melia:

And there's a couple of elements that I guess define that, more than what people are used to. What functionally just absolutely works. There's a thing in industrial design people say, "No one's been able to successfully redesign the umbrella," because it's so perfect and everyone's so used to it. There's an element of that, I guess, to those things. Also, maybe there's a kind of industry standard that people are worried about disrupting, maybe. Most of the controls in the camera to the right. Is that correct? I mean, what percentage of the world are right-handed? There's still a fundamental sort of concern about taking, especially on some of the larger, more analog cameras, the more professional ones, taking analog controls and making them digital. I think to ... it'd be quite a disruptive product to rethink something like that that's been exactly the same for what, a hundred years?

RVLTR:

Yeah, and there are a few examples. I mean the iPhone is the obvious one, where you took something that had a keyboard and a tiny screen, and then you turned the screen into the keyboard, and then kind of completely changed the paradigms. But those are pretty rare it seems. And once something start working, it's more of an evolution then. Because fundamentally, if you take a car, it's working the same way it has for 120 years. It's evolved. Obviously it's more elaborate, more complex, but the basic driving experience is basically the same. So that's always been fascinating to me. And I wonder if someone had to invent the car today with today's technology, if it would be completely different, or if you'd had a blank slate, which is not going to happen, obviously.

James Melia:

I wonder whether it's just the car, though. And if you had a blank slate on the way that the infrastructure worked, as in the roads and the light systems and the roundabouts, then I think it'd be a very different thing. But the fact is that you're ... even these brand new electric cars you're seeing that look very conceptual, but they're actually existing, which is exciting, you're still penned in with the same restrictions. The Tesla's got a floating iPad essentially, and nothing else, which is amazing, interesting, from a design point of view. They're still constrained by exactly the same parameters in terms of safety and road infrastructure.

RVLTR:

Yeah, because you have to contend with the same infrastructure. You have a very good point. So is there a project of yours in particular that you're the most proud of, or that kind of stands out?

James Melia:

There was one recently. It's actually the brand I've already mentioned in the podcast, Joseph Joseph. They're kind of similar to OXO, you've also mentioned.

RVLTR:

The water bottle?

James Melia:

Yeah. That one particularly. I mean it's very, very difficult space to innovate in, if you're not just sticking technology in something. I mean, people have put LEDs and UV cleaning elements in water bottles, which is arguably innovative and useful, but eventually will time out and break. I think we always try to find some analog solution to a problem, or we know that we find. But first of all, I think actually being able to identify a opportunity in a space that's been so heavily occupied was really successful, was very happy with. We actually did a lot of observational research. You ask people about water bottle, not going to say, "Oh, I have deep thoughts," about their water bottle, to an extent. So we went out into London just before the pandemic, and took a couple of days just observing people using water bottles, and what we found was, people on the phone had the water bottle in their hand, newspaper, and they're kind of like struggling with this cap they've taken off.

And so we just found this opportunity to try to somehow make the cap less of a thing that could be lost, or could just be an extra thing you have to hold in your hand. So from that observational research, which I'm the largest advocate of, as opposed to interviewing one on one or even on a bigger scale, we were able to create a method where the cap just slides over the neck of the bottle and it stays there whilst you drink. So also has the benefits in terms of hygiene and storage. So if you take the cap off the neck and store it inside the cupboard, you're not going to get the smell when it's being contained and sealed. That I'm particularly proud of, and even more so proud of it that people don't recognize it. It goes slightly unnoticed, which from a commercial point of view is a bit frustrating. There needs messaging to sort of show that you can use this function, but if you manage to create such a great USP, and it not be screaming at you, then that answers all of the Blond ethos, everything we've been trying to achieve. And even though it's just a simple water bottle it's probably the thing that I'm most proud of, because of that.

RVLTR:

That's interesting. So how do you go about doing those observational studies? Where do you go to observe people using drinking bottles? That's a very interesting question to me.

James Melia:

Yeah, it's a bit of a spying, isn't it? And obviously don't want to take too many pictures because it's not ... It's a bit strange. But we went out to London, the Underground, the Tube, and particularly where it's hot, the central line, and luckily it was summer, so we saw people carrying water bottles constantly, in a typical sort of tourist hotspot in London, like Trafalgar Square and the Tate Museum and various other places in London, and just sat there and observed. Basically took a couple of Tube stops, sat on some benches, watched people going about their lunch break with their reusable or non-reusable water bottle, and just how they were carrying it, how they're using it, how they're drinking from it. Yeah.

RVLTR:

So you basically get paid to people watch.

James Melia:

Basically. This is a great job. Hey.

RVLTR:

That's amazing. So you've alluded to that in the talking about the bottle, the use of technology and industrial design. And I think that's a great segue to talk about more how big tech ... or how tech in general, is getting used in industrial design, and how do you see that looking in the future?

James Melia:

It's a difficult thing to respond to. I think there's some exciting opportunities from industrial design process with technology, and how you present your work to clients, augmented reality and VR. From a product point of view, there are some great opportunities for us to be able to better the world we live in, especially with, for example, EVs and electric transportation mobility in general.

RVLTR:

What would be maybe a dream project? Maybe there's an assignment that you've thought about that you'd like to get, but you haven't gotten a chance to. What would that look like to you?

James Melia:

I'm a furniture designer by trade, so I actually have a degree in furniture design. And I think actually a dream project now would be some expanding of my furniture portfolio. So a desk chair, something really that benefits the ergonomics of ... and benefits just in the way that people sit, and their posture and general ergonomics of working. That would be an absolutely lovely project. That would be a dream project. Also, because we're relatively large, and when you run an agency, small projects, as much as they're really fun, it's nice to have a long, large project that takes a while to develop, and you can really get your teeth sunk into.

And that, and then my answer's always the same. I mean I've been asked it one or two times. As an agency, I always ensure that we have a variety of work coming through the door. I mean, we design within the same month coat hangers and refrigerators and air conditioners and glass Tupperware. So the variety's really important, I think, just to ensure that everyone is on their toes and interested, and every day is different for them, and they enjoy coming into work. And so the dream brief is one that's different to the previous briefs, which is a slightly non-answer I suppose, but it's true. So.

RVLTR:

That's a very designer answer.

James Melia:

Yeah.

RVLTR:

One of the last questions I have for you, it's a bit on the lighter side. Where does the name Blond come from, and what does it mean to you?

James Melia:

On the lighter side, but it has a long answer. Yeah. I had a podcast a couple weeks ago, and apparently the person did lots of question-asking for the audience beforehand to say, "What were your questions for James?" And it was the main asked question, apparently. I understand why. I was looking for names for a long time, and I did lots of workshop sessions with my friends, and I was trying to create this name that had this meaning, and the way that we bring design details together, and there's some process we're looking to adopt as an agency. And the first ... one of the first names that landed, kind of thought, that's it, was a name called Cohesion, right. Cohesion. And I thought ... we both thought, "That's it. That's it. We found the name." And the person I was working with at the time, he's actually recently come back to the business. And we went to bed and woke up, and we'd both forgotten what the name was. So it was quite evident that that wasn't the name, because it wasn't memorable.

So from there I was on a quest to look for something memorable. And in doing so I was thinking about lots of different band names or company names or anything that sticks out in my head. And there's two that always stuck out in my head, which were Acne, which is a clothing brand, and Red Hot Chili Peppers, not a band I like, but I remember their name for some reason. I think about them. And I was trying to analyze-

RVLTR:

Do you know what the Red Hot Chili Peppers' first name was?

James Melia:

No. No, no. Go on.

RVLTR:

So if I remember correctly, because it's a bit long and complicated, it's [Tony Flow and the] Miraculously Majestic Masters of Mayhem.

James Melia:

I did know that. I did know that. I was a big fan of their first couple of albums, particularly Californication. So I had heard that, I think. Yeah. Interesting. It's much better. Red Hot Chili Peppers must have been more memorable.

RVLTR:

Yeah, yeah. It's probably a bit too punk maybe for what they're doing now.

James Melia:

Yeah, maybe. And so basically I was analyzing those, and I thought they were really interesting case studies, because you don't think about the actual chili pepper when you think about Red Hot Chili Peppers. You think about the band. And likewise with Acne, you don't think about spots. Again, I'm not ... still haven't looked it up, probably should, but I think it's a French brand. I think it means something else in French maybe. But anyway, you think about the really beautiful bits of clothing they make, particularly if you know the brand. And therefore I was looking for a name that stuck out in people's minds and they remembered. Equally, it needed to have some kind of meaning. And I came along ... I came up with the name of Blond, basically based upon the color of wood. So being relatively unintrusive, not shouting, some kind of longevity to it aesthetically. As you've noticed, that's a running theme.

And then also the other fact that it has this connotation of hair color, which does make people smile and almost laugh, basically, at you. Because of that, it doesn't get forgotten. I always give this example of when I was completely validated. I went into the room with LG UK one day, was really early days, my first time in the company. And one of the design directors said, as soon as he walked through the door, I think it was even before hello, "I expected you to be wearing blonde wigs." And he was taking the piss completely. Fine though, justified. But at that moment, as much as he was taking the mick, I knew that we'd found a name that people would remember and ask about, as part of enjoying it.

RVLTR:

Do you go to meetings wearing blonde wigs?

James Melia:

No.

RVLTR:

Because that would be a great icebreaker if you wore like a ... what is it called, a bob cut? Or that's kind of really straight chin length hair with bangs. That would be hilarious.

James Melia:

Yeah. You call it bangs, don't you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that would be funny. No, I don't. And then, other reasons are slightly less interesting.

RVLTR:

And it's funny how a good name keeps on giving you new meanings over time, right?

James Melia:

Yeah.

RVLTR:

That's how you know whether you've picked a good name or not, if you keep coming up with new meanings for it. One of the last questions I have, to get back to a slightly more serious topic, what are some of the lessons you've learned from being a successful industrial designer that you think could apply to architecture and interior design?

James Melia:

The running of a business, probably. I think that crosses everything from all aspects of creativity and beyond. And starting a company. Some of the lessons I learned early on maybe could transfer across for someone looking to start an architecture business, maybe.

I started it with no clients, and no portfolio. I took a £15K loan to basically fund six months-plus of mortgage repayments, and hoped that I would get some work. And my advice to people would be to take more if you're going to take a loan, because that was naive, and that was far too little. But to go for it. And that's the way to do it, is to add that pressure. Obviously there was a big risk there, but I had to make it work. There was a ... And I always had this ... sort of relatively scared of public speaking, even doing this kind of thing. I'd be quite nervous, I mean most throughout my whole life. And then during those first six months, when I had the ticking pressure of the financial side of things, as much as I probably lost a bit of hair in the process, all those barriers, that I want to worry, gone. Suddenly I'd stop being nervous, talk to people, trying to get work, doing these kinds of things. And so some of the biggest learnings I've had is just to, if you want to do it, you want to create your own business, just do it, take the risk, but maybe give yourself a little bit more of a buffer than probably six months worth of overheads.

RVLTR:

And so how long was it until you got your first job?

James Melia:

We were really lucky. I think we got one within the first ... Well, we had a very small one right at the beginning, within the first couple of days. But then I think the big one came within three or four weeks.

RVLTR:

That's pretty fast.

James Melia:

I had been building a website, and I incorporated the company the year before, when I was working full-time. And every single weekend I'd been building a portfolio, albeit conceptual. So it wasn't starting completely from scratch. I had something to hit the floor running with.

RVLTR:

Gotcha. That's all for the questions I had today.

James Melia:

Thank you very much for having me on, and thank you very much everybody for listening.

Tuesday Nov 01, 2022

Single Serves ep. 316 - Ling on Supportive Modular Housing

Tuesday Nov 01, 2022

This episode touches on two topics that have been of particular interest to me in recent times: modular housing and accelerated construction schedules.

Daniel Ling of Montgomery Sisam is my guest in this episode where we talked about his involvement in a supportive modular housing project that was designed and built in about 6 months and what lessons can be learned from this to be applied to the world of architecture more broadly speaking.

Tuesday Oct 18, 2022

Single Serves ep. 315 - McKinley on the Black Chamber

Tuesday Oct 18, 2022

Walker McKinley is the founder of McKinley Studios, a firm operating in the fields of strategy, architecture, interiors, branding, art and furniture, based in Western Canada. The firm operates on a unique studio model, the "Black Chamber", that aims at giving designers more agency over their work, through collaboration between creative disciplines, which is what is discussed in this episode.

Interview transcript (edited for brevity and clarity): Coming soon.

Tuesday Oct 04, 2022

Single Serves ep. 314 - Chung on Creative Solutions to the Housing Problem

Tuesday Oct 04, 2022

Jaegap founded Studio JCI with his partner Sue Jean Chung in 2007, with the shared goal of creating timeless buildings that contribute to the social, economic, and cultural fabric of cities. A commitment to finding creative, practical and affordable solutions to Toronto’s urban planning problem led to the development of the Multi-Tach: a long-term, sustainable, multi-generational solution to the problem of Toronto’s affordable housing crisis and its “missing middle” challenge, among many other's of Toronto's most interesting buildings in the last few years.

In this episode we're discussing yet another time Toronto's chronically undersupplied housing stock. And we will discuss it over and over again until things change (looking at you politicians).

Interview transcript (edited for brevity and clarity) coming soon:

Tuesday Sep 20, 2022

Single Serves ep. 313 - Lewis on Talent Attraction

Tuesday Sep 20, 2022

The architecture industry currently has a massive talent gap. There are way more vacancies than there are candidates, which is a massive problem for many firms who cannot staff properly and deliver projects, leading to employees quitting, staff burnout and a whole host of attendant issues.

I interview Stuart Lewis, CEO of marketing agency Clever Samurai to discuss talent attraction, best hiring practices and finding out ways to stand out from the competition.

Hiring, much like marketing is a spring, not a marathon.

Listen in to see what Stuart had to say on the topic.

Tuesday Sep 06, 2022

Single Serves ep. 312 - Cousins Wilson on the Preservation of Social Housing

Tuesday Sep 06, 2022

There has been a lot of talk on this podcast about housing, missing middle and the current challenges that much of the western world, and particularly Canada is experiencing when it comes to housing, its affordability and availability.

Enter Tura Cousins-Wilson, co-founder of SOCA, with partner Shane Laptiste, who have caught the public’s attention over the last couple of years with daring and innovative proposal, often centred around preservation of existing buildings.

I invited Tura to join me on the podcast to talk about the preservation of social housing as a way to increase the housing supply without throwing the modernist baby with the bathwater and demolish buildings that, in spite of not love at the present moment, present architectural qualities that Cousins-Wilson think are worth preserving.

Listen in to see what Tura has to say on the topic.

{Recorded in April 2022 during IDS Toronto}

Tuesday Jun 21, 2022

Single Serves ep. 311 - Barhay & Sun on The Future of Retail.mp3

Tuesday Jun 21, 2022

The last few years have been a rollercoaster for retail.

In this is episode, Supreet Barhay and Stanley Sun attempt answering the question: What's the future like for retail?

Barhay is a principal at WZMH architects in Toronto, where she leads the retail team. As a result of the shifting retail landscape brought about by long-term trends and accelerated by the pandemic, she and her team have been working on an initiative called 'The future of Retail'.

Sun is the co-founder and principal at Mason Studio in Toronto, where he has worked on a variety of interiors, from boutique hotel to retail stores, he is a keen observer of how people interact with and use spaces. He uses that knowledge to shape spaces, specifically with light.

Tuesday May 31, 2022

Single Serves ep. 310 - Ashfield on Public Speaking

Tuesday May 31, 2022

What make a good public speaker? Susie Ashfield joins us on episode 310 to share some secrets with us...

Ashfield comes from a strong creative background. As a communications specialist, she makes the most of her unique combination of acting skills, and her director-level business experience. She focuses on coaching to control and optimize body language and non-verbal communication techniques, as well as enabling clients to structure content for effect, and develop the kind of vocal strength needed to succeed. As a speaker and trainer she runs high energy workshops centered around powerful performance, from dealmaking conversations to TEDx talks. Susie is a qualified Associate Certified Coach with the International Coach Federation and she specialises in stage fright and performances anxiety techniques

Tuesday May 10, 2022

Single Serves ep. 309 - Sibolboro on Canadian Design

Tuesday May 10, 2022

Richelle Sibolboro is a brand strategist and content creator with in-depth expertise and passion for arts and culture especially design, architecture, and travel.

With over 15 years of experience in communications, design, brand, and strategy, she currently works with brands to achieve insight and alignment through participatory and collaborative sessions.

Today, we're going to talk about Canadian Design and specifically attempt to answer the question: What is Canadian Design?

Wednesday Apr 27, 2022

Single Serves ep. 308 - Stoddard on Service Design

Wednesday Apr 27, 2022

What is service design and how can it help designers conceive of better environments that better serve their users?

This is the question that John Stoddard and I attempted to answer in this conversation.

John is a Service Design consultant and teacher, based in the Bay Area, helping organizations create high value customer experiences. He's worked with many organizations and firms in the past, most notably IDEO in their London and Palo Alto offices. He's also an educator, having taught at UC Berkeley and University of San Francisco.

Tuesday Apr 12, 2022

Single Serves ep. 307 - Speckert on Single Stair Buildings

Tuesday Apr 12, 2022

What are some of the simple, easy and immediate solutions to the housing challenges that many growing cities are experiencing?

Conrad Speckert came up with one and has joined us on the podcast to talk about it in detail.

Conrad is a recent graduate from architecture school, and previously an architectural designer at Superkul and KPMB in Toronto, as well as offices in Japan and Germany.

He's currently working on a proposal to allow for single stair apartment buildings in the National Building Code of Canada. More broadly, he's interested in policy solutions that address our combined housing and climate crises.

Check out his website documenting all his research and findings here: www.secondegress.ca

Interview transcript (edited for brevity and clarity):

RVLTR (00:01:34):

So today we're gonna talk about single-stair buildings and why they might provide solutions to the housing crisis before we do. So can you tell us who you are and what you do in your own words, in three sentences or less?

Conrad Speckert (00:01:48):

Sure. I've recently graduated from architecture school. I did my undergrad in Ontario at Waterloo and my Master's at McGill. And what I've become really interested in is the issue of housing, especially around the missing middle and just how this can really deal with questions of affordability. And yeah, currently I spend my days working on the [building] code change, which is kind of a continuation of what I've done as my thesis project,which is all about single-stair buildings in Canada.

RVLTR (00:02:20):

Okay. So before we jump into the single staircase buildings can you tell us a little bit more about that effort or project you're working on for the code change? Have you been mandated by someone or is it something you were doing independently? How is that working for you?

Conrad Speckert (00:02:36):

I wish someone had told me to do this, it basically began as a thesis project, four months of research where I started to look at what other jurisdictions allow the types of multi-unit buildings that are possible. And that work was really well received and given the recent kind of pressure and timing around issues of housing affordability, I've been really encouraged by other architects and then got some funding through federal grants to actually develop this into a code change, for the national building code.

RVLTR (00:03:21):

So you're working on the changes and you are going to submit them to the regulatory authority at some point in the hopes that they'll change the code based on your recommendations?

Conrad Speckert (00:03:32):

Yes.

RVLTR (00:03:33):

That's amazing. Let's talk about single staircase buildings and what they are exactly.

Conrad Speckert (00:03:41):

So single staircase buildings, which you'll hear some people refer to as point access blocks, is a building that has one exit stair. For instance, in North America, mostly for apartment buildings, we have a door with two exit stairs at either end. But there's way more flexibility in the types of floor plans you can design and the way you can lay out units when you can have one central exit stair it gets you much more livable spaces, more natural daylight and better passive ventilation. And it's really the dominant housing type in urban environments around the world, except in North America where we do double loaded corridors, which are pretty much the same layout as a hotel. So your apartment is a shoebox and my favourite term I've heard someone use for it is that they are "safety deposit boxes in sky".

RVLTR (00:04:52):

Yeah. There's a lot of truth to that. So is there a particular reason why we don't have them in North America?

Conrad Speckert (00:04:59):

Our building code does not permit it. In Canada, you're not allowed to build above two stories with a single stair. And there's only one exception to that, which is townhouses, for which you can go to three stories with the stairs just within that unit. In the US, you can go to four stories, although every city actually has its own kind of variation on that. And when you start to look at building codes in the States, it's crazy how every single city is slightly unique in its own way.

RVLTR (00:05:36):

So in the course of your research, have you found out what was the rationale for two stairs in North America? Is there a particular reason?

Conrad Speckert (00:05:46):

I'll give you two versions of an answer to that. The Canadian building code was first published in 1941, and Canada has a history of building in wood frame construction, which is combustible construction. And so one really good argument for why the rules are the way they are. Is that in return for combustible construction, we have really stringent exiting requirements. To be honest, that made a lot of sense in 1941 when the code was first published, but today with modern firefighting practices, a really good understanding of people's behaviour in fire, with modern fire alarm systems, with a whole bunch of other things that we put into our codes and just a totally different way of building buildings it really doesn't reflect that condition. So I'd say it's the history of building in wood. And then the other one is that in Canada, there isn't really a history of dense, walkable urbanism, which is the way cities have been built in Asia and Europe for a long time. So that never meant that there was any kind of pressure to optimize the codes for mid-rise apartment buildings. That's why in Canada, there's "part nine", which makes it really easy and, and affordable to build low rise buildings below three stories and 600 square meters. And then as soon as you exceed that, you jump into a whole new basket of rules, which means that a developer will very rarely be able to pencil out a project that's four or five stories and it just adds pressure to go really high. So I'd say those are two answers to it. And maybe one thing just to add to it to compare is that in talking to a code expert a really good description I got is that basically the older the building code is the longer that document is. The code in Canada is over 2000 pages long, whereas in a country like Switzerland, for instance, it's only about 600. A lot of countries after WWII just started over with a new code, but in North America, our code is based off of codes from individual cities. So Chicago, New York and Boston. That basically means that there's a lot of stuff that's in the code Canada today, that's based off of risk assumptions from over a hundred years ago.

RVLTR (00:08:34):

What you said about the double stair requirement, making it more difficult for developers to build denser or to make their proforma work really, it sounds to me like there's an analogy to the now removed parking requirements that made developments much more challenging because you had to dig two or three stories to build a parking lot. Whereas nowadays there's maximum parking requirements that either allow you to not have any parking if you do, to keep it to a bare minimum. So do you think if that rule was removed or amended, it would have a similar impact on the ability of developers to make their proformas work?

Conrad Speckert (00:09:20):

Absolutely. And it's funny that you mentioned the parking thing because when I first started looking into this, the first initial literature review Eb Zeidler, who is a really renowned architect in Toronto, was in an interview in the Toronto Star way back in 2004 where they were asking him about the new kind of midrise planning guidelines and what that would mean for the city of Toronto along avenues. He brought up specific points. He spent the whole interview talking about the issue of the two means of egress and the parking requirements. And so what's really exciting is that the city has removed and changed those parking requirements, which suggest, you know, in part, if you follow Zeidler's logic, the stairs are that other big hurdle. Now without a doubt, zoning regulations, questions of how projects are financed there are huge other implications out there. And a lot of that has to do with politics and complex regulations, but as a specific building code issue, within the realm of architects and engineers and planning departments the issue of the single stair is huge.

RVLTR (00:10:44):

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So to go back to the idea of the code dating back to 1941, being probably on the older side of building codes worldwide and it being based on the fact that a lot of buildings were wood frame buildings at the time, it doesn't seem to me that there's a lot of mid-rise apartment buildings that are built out of wood. Generally it would be either concrete or nowadays maybe mass timber or combination of steel and concrete, or maybe a concrete superstructure with partitions. So it doesn't seem like there's any reason anymore to justify that because as you and I both know apartment buildings in Europe are generally concrete either precast or cast in place. And they all have a single-stair exit. Would that be any different in Canada if we had more of those kinds of mid-rise buildings, like say six to 12 stories?

Conrad Speckert (00:11:53):

It's really a question of combustible and non combustible construction. I can point you to dozens of projects, which are wood frame, mass timber, what we define as combustible construction that are single-stair in Europe. So it's not to say that the single stair is related to non-combustible construction in any of those codes, but maybe the best way to describe this is that there's an essay which someone from the Canadian code development wrote in the 1980s which was basically called "the issue of combustible". And what it was talking about is that for the longest time, we always define wood as combustible and concrete or steel is non combustible, but the modern code is actually set up that it really, that's really not the discussion at hand in that performatively, It's about time, it's about the fire rating of your assembly. You can build a wood frame building with a two-hour fire rating, the same way as concrete. We really have to untangle this idea of a building being either non-combustible or combustible because that has also a huge impact on the embodied carbon of how you build as well. What's really exciting about everything that's happening with mass timber is that you can build out of wood just as safe. This was the huge push that happened in 2015 and in the IBC and in the US in 2018 is that you can build out of wood to be just as safe as out of concrete. So that material question has really been debunked in the past few years especially through the work of the Canadian wood council.

RVLTR (00:13:51):

I remember in my student days back in France at the time mass timber wasn't all the rage, but it had already kind of started taking hold in Germany and Switzerland and the architecturally progressive countries. I was stunned to learn at the time that from an engineering perspective, a mass timber member would withstand fire for a long time because that outer layer burns and then it protects the inside of the structure. So as long as you oversize your members, your structure should stand up for quite some time. It seems that in the public psyche, and even with architects, they say: "oh, wood is combustible and concrete isn't" and I think you make a very good point. It's maybe time to jettison that outdated mode of thinking and really start thinking in terms of what makes sense from a safety perspective.

Conrad Speckert (00:14:51):

I'll just add to that. I was at a passive house conference a few months ago, and there was a prefabricated straw bale manufacturer from Eastern Europe who was giving a presentation. And it boggles my mind, but they actually produce straw bales, that just seems to me like the most combustible thing in the world, but they have created a straw bale panel that has a fire rating of either 90 minutes or two hours. Incredible.

RVLTR (00:15:23):

I'm supposing it has non combustible finishes on the outside. Is that what it is?

Conrad Speckert (00:15:29):

Yeah, I really should have paid closer attention to really know exactly what it is that they've done, but the stringent fire testing that these new materials have to go through to be able to conform to the codes. They met the requirements and the guy actually showed a video: it's got a wood frame and then the installation of the straw bale is basically infill. And in the final testing video, the wood of the frame burned first and burned far more vigorously than the straw bale in between.

RVLTR (00:16:05):

That's interesting

Conrad Speckert (00:16:07):

It turns the logic on its head.

RVLTR (00:16:08):

It goes to show that and that's more of a general comment about technology - that you can't really predict what new technologies will allow you to do even in the near future. That's why maybe it's time to revise the building code or even scrap it and start from scratch, as you said, I don't know if that's a good idea.

Conrad Speckert (00:16:31):

I won't say that or I'll get shot when I submit my building code change.

RVLTR (00:16:36):

You didn't, but I did, so you're safe.

Conrad Speckert (00:16:40):

One thing I can add to that is that the big issue with new materials and new practices, the combined crises right now of housing and climate, there are solutions out there that can really address both these issues that we see happening in other jurisdictions. And what's frustrating is that the code in Canada explicitly says that you can do alternative solutions. So when you go for a building permit, if you think you can exceed the life safety of what's considered acceptable in the code, you consider that alternative solution.

RVLTR (00:17:21):

But then you have to fund your own testing, right?

Conrad Speckert (00:17:23):

Have to fund your own testing. Exactly. There's no mechanism to do that upfront and collaboratively. You can't do it until you get a building permit. And by the time you're at the building permit, all decisions have been made essentially. And so it's an incredibly risky thing, but it does happen for lots of stuff. The double stair requirement has been in the code since the beginning. The mantra "you must have two means of egress" is something that is drilled into the brains of architecture students from first year. So you're going up against a Goliath of assumptions when you try to come up with an alternative solution for that, which is why - quite reasonably - no one does it.

RVLTR (00:18:10):

And to be fair, I think the housing crisis, although I hate this term crisis, because it's overused. I'm sure the building code change could have a serious impact on making it easier. But I personally, and this is a whole other topic for another podcast, but I personally think it's a zoning issue and the politicians' lack of balls to be direct, to change the code, to allow more midrises as of right. The building code would help if you didn't have a second stair requirement, but there's also an entire 60 or 70% of the city of Toronto, where you can only build single-family houses as of right. This is insane. This is madness. And I've talked about this many times on this podcast with Chris Spoke...

Conrad Speckert (00:19:02):

Are you counting how many times someone says yellow belt on your podcast?

RVLTR (00:19:06):

If I had to drink every time, I'd be drunk. (laughs)

Conrad Speckert (00:19:14):

If anybody thinks that I'm coming in here proclaiming that a single stair is a silver bullet, no, it's not a silver bullet. The issue of zoning, the issue of acceptable levels of profit in a proforma and the degree of capitalism that we insist on, there are bigger issues at stake here. But what's interesting about the single stair is that we don't need to hold an election to deal with the single stair. We don't need to go door to door and knock on everybody's house or deal with the NIMBYs. That shows up to a council meeting. Single stair is within the control and subject matter of professionals in this industry. So we should be able to have a really adult conversation about it.

RVLTR (00:20:04):

Probably no one cares like outside of the profession anyways. So if that requirement were removed, people wouldn't even give a thought to it.

Conrad Speckert (00:20:13):

I've been accused by some people of trying to kill people.

RVLTR (00:20:18):

That's always gonna happen, I'm afraid. So let's talk a little bit about your research and what motivated you to do your thesis on the subject in the first place, how did that come about?

Conrad Speckert (00:20:33):

I grew up in Europe. I grew up in a single stair building. It was three stories and five apartments. When I started architecture school in Canada, we had a housing project and multi-unit we did, I think, three stories and the professors made it very explicit: you need to have two means of egress. And at the time I didn't realize the significance of that statement. But then after architecture school, I was working in Toronto doing a lot of mid-rise, 6 to 10 storey housing.I completely understand why it is that way, but everything was a double-loaded corridor, 22 to 25 meters deep floor plates. So each unit is like a shoebox and really repetitive. And you'd get these long corridors because the code lets you do a corridor, basically up to 45 meters I think, which are just dead spaces. If you Google - it's a kinda cute name - "breaking up with the double-loaded corridor", it's this wonderful package that basically just compares what circulation could be and makes everybody envious of what that code change could create. So there's that kind of frustration working in Toronto and at the same time, you'd see precedents of housing going up in other places. I worked in Berlin where everything was single-stair. I lived in a single-stair. All my friends lived in single-stair buildings. When I was working in Japan the actual architectural office was a four story brand new building, single-stair. That was actually commercial use. So when I started my thesis and pondered: "Hey, what am I gonna do this on?" I started to just look at: "Has anybody ever really gone into this conversation in North America" and with the exception of the Zeidler article from 2004 the OAA, the Ontario association of architects published a report in 2019 - and I think you've had some of the people that worked on that on here before - and on one of the slides as part of their package recommendations, they mentioned a change to the Ontario building code to allow for single-stair buildings. I got goosebumps at that moment because it was in black and white, I'm not insane. It is a good idea, and I just decided to make this work for the next little while and then increasingly as I got into it it started with an essay that I wrote then that started turned into a grant to do a bit more research on it, then turned into a CMHC-funded "big project". And it just keeps growing.

RVLTR (00:23:38):

I think that's probably the best way to enter the profession is to develop something that makes you an expert and then people seek you out. So I think it's great that you did that and it's great that you continue beyond school and I think gives you a huge leg up professionally, now you're probably gonna start being seen - if you're not already - as the code reform expert in the country or hopefully that's what happens to you, leading to a great career. So let's talk a little bit about other places and, and I know we've touched on that here and there through other questions, but what do other building codes in other countries allow that are not allowed in Canada that would make a big difference?

Conrad Speckert (00:24:24):

That's probably my favorite question because once you start to look at what's possible in other countries and read some of these building codes you realize just how profoundly different things are. So in Germany and Switzerland, you can go up to 60 meters. That's about 20 storeys you with the single-stair and the requirements around sprinkler and pressurization and corridor separation - the life safety measures - change once you exceed 20 to 22 meters. In Japan, which again is a place with really significant earthquake risk, the rules are five stories. In China, you can go 80 meters. In Australia and New Zealand, which have a similar cultural context and background as Canada, it's 25 meters. And there's some beautiful examples of that there

RVLTR (00:25:25):

I've always been amazed with Australia's architectural quality. For such a small country in such a remote part of the world. I think they have, per capita, probably some of the best contemporary architecture almost anywhere, maybe except for Germany, Switzerland, and Spain or something, so it's no surprise that they're a bit more progressive too.

Conrad Speckert (00:25:50):

I'm curious, have you ever wondered why that is? Because I actually don't don't have a good answer. Because it seems to me that Australia and Canada competitive advantage-wise are similar Commonwealth countries.

RVLTR (00:26:04):

I don't know. I've asked many people, I've asked Australian architects. Nobody has a definite answer. Some people have elements of an answer, but it's hard to tell, I don't know if it's in the culture or if their building codes allow them to do things you can't do elsewhere. I'm not familiar enough with that, but I've been to Australia once for a couple of weeks. And just about anywhere I went, the creativity and the quality of architecture was outstanding. It's just mind blowing. I don't know if anyone has a good answer, but maybe it's cultural and because they're a bit weird sometimes. Maybe they just kind of carry that.

Conrad Speckert (00:26:55):

Canadians are not weird sometimes?

RVLTR (00:26:57):

They are, but not in a creative, funny way. What I'm saying may make no sense at all, but Australians are playful, you know, when you hang out with a group of Australians, they're gonna banter, they're gonna give you shit for having a silly name or wearing a funny shirt or not drinking as many beers as they do or whatever it is. And I think that translates into their design culture. They're just more playful, I guess, is the closest term I could use. Canadians can be weird from a European perspective and I am Canadian now, so I'm trying to be careful about what I say, but it's in a more conservative fashion. Socially speaking, Canadians are more conservative. They don't like to rock the boat. They don't like to stand out. So I think that's, to me, that's the chief distinction between Canadian and Australian cultures.

Conrad Speckert (00:27:56):

In a sense, our building code is a perfect reflection of our culture.

RVLTR (00:28:01):

Probably

Conrad Speckert (00:28:04):

Add to that a few more notes maybe. I'm in Quebec right now. So I better mention France. France is 50 meters. But if anyone listening to this is really curious, you can go to the website www.secondegress.Ca, And there's a whole list of countries and the maximum height you can build with one stair. Again, just to point out, Canada is at the bottom of that list. Maybe one other thing is the UK. The UK is at the top of that list and the UK actually has no limit on the maximum building height you can build. And there's been a few interesting articles recently because of the Grenfell disaster. Post-Grenfell there have been some building applications for buildings that are almost 50% taller than Grenfell with a single stair, and the code in the UK says: "This is fine". Part of the way that has come about is because in the UK, there's a "stay in place" firefighting strategy, which means that you stay in your unit, even once the fire alarm's gone off, until the fire department explicitly orders you to evacuate. And so for context, in the Grenfell tower disaster, a 24-storey tower, which caught fire in 2017, where the insulation wasn't up to code and was actually combustible on the facade. A lot of people died. But in that case, the fire alarm was going for more than 80 minutes, more than an hour before the building evacuation. And certainly, you know, the reason why that stay in place was there is because it's a single-stair building. There's the risk that you overwhelm that stair, nevermind the fact that firefighters are going up and people are going down if only have one. But Granfell was a 24-storey tower. I'm talking about this here, we're talking about mid rise buildings, five, six stories. There's a whole bunch more complexity into it as well. I just bring up Grenfell because the immediate gut reaction that I received from people who don't like this idea of single stair is to raise the example of the Grrenfell tower. But there is so much more complexity to that conversation than just the fact that it was a single stair building.

RVLTR (00:30:34):

The common fallacy, that logical fallacy that people make in any area of expertise, not just architecture where they'll pick one horrible, horrible incident as a justification for a rule that doesn't necessarily make sense. But if you think there's probably millions, or if not millions, maybe hundreds of thousands of towers like that across the world that didn't burn down. So for one of those that horribly burnt down, how many are still standing up and perfectly safe is really what you need to look at.

Conrad Speckert (00:31:08):

Yeah. I mean, Grenfell violated the code. The insulation they used on it was not code compliant and in a bunch of other ways, Grenfell could never repeat itself here because of the way that we have a whole bunch of rules in our building code that apply to buildings above 18 meters in Heights. In Canada, there's a really good package of rules that comes with high rise buildings. After Grenfell, authorities in Canada went: "Oh, could this happen here?" And they reviewed the codes and in Canada they are nothing like the code in the UK in terms of tall building requirements. There's a whole bunch of other safety measures in it beyond the issue of two stairs.

RVLTR (00:32:07):

It's a code compliance issue. It's not an egress issue basically. You should almost not be allowed to use that example, because it has it's almost entirely irrelevant

Conrad Speckert (00:32:24):

But it will come up. I know when this code change goes in people will raise hell and point at Grenfell. And precisely this conversation has to happen over and over again.

RVLTR (00:32:35):

That's why you have to be prepared. Logic doesn't always solve the issue because logic doesn't convince people necessarily, but I think you gotta stick to the evidence of the safety of those stairs by and large. Otherwise you can find a horrible example of anything just about anywhere in the world. So those 1-time instances should never be used as justification for not even considering a change in code.

Conrad Speckert (00:33:12):

Well I'm not gonna get into the whole conversation of post-truth and post-fact world because that's beyond my scope, but a U of T professor was describing this issue of "wicked problems" and in doing so had mentioned the debate around street widening or traffic calming where planners will say, you know, this saves lives because it slows traffic, which makes the streets safer. But often a fire department will come back and say: "No this doesn't save lives because it slows our response time to an emergency." And so you get two competing risk assumptions based on empirical knowledge. It's a really frustrating predicament because someone will say: "Okay, we need to create the study and hire a consultant to settle this debate." But how do you settle that debate when both sides have a competing value system?

RVLTR (00:34:18):

Well, there's an easy answer to that: buy smaller fire trucks like they do in Europe. Because it's true. There's probably issues with the fire departments not being able to fit those ginormous trucks through smaller streets, but that's a design problem. It's not a safety issue. You either design those streets to somehow still be able to accommodate those, or you just start buying smaller trucks for those instances where you can't fit the big ones. I don't think that's strictly a safety issue. It's a logistical problem that certainly has a solution. And as a society, you know, you were talking about post-truth and not wanting to get into debate, but I think we have to get into that debate because without necessarily being controversial, but we live in a world where information is biased and it always was biased to an extent, but the problem is that with contemporary media, they have access to analytical tools that they never had before. And what that means is that for anyone who puts out, say, the news, they can analyze the effect of any headline over thousands of viewers with a level of granularity that they never had access to before. What that means is that you can literally figure out which headlines will get the most clicks. And so, because we're wired - evolutionarily speaking - to respond to "drama" and unusual news, the media are producing news that directly taps into our subconscious or unconscious desire to respond to things that are unusual. Whereas, you know, a moderately written news headline will not attract anyone's attention because it doesn't stand out. And so to go back to the idea of post-truth and wicked problems we have to become attuned to the fact that the media is biased. Media are biased more than ever before, because they have access to that analytical data that enables them to produce content that people want to click on at a subconscious level. And we're not equipped to fight with that because we don't have time to spend any amount of time looking at a headline and thinking: "Is that trying to manipulate me?" We don't because people have lives to live. There's an asymmetry of power in some sense where we're bombarded with grandiose bombastic dramatic headlines that make everything sound like it's way worse than it is. So I'm not sure how that ties into what you were saying, but, you know, when you're trying to convince people that your code change could be good for the country and the cities as a whole and solve a whole bunch of problems in the process you have to be equipped to debunk those specious arguments that people are gonna make and say: "Oh, you're just trying to create a whole bunch of Grenfell towers." It's like: "No, and this is what the data tells me. What you're saying is false. And I can prove it."

Conrad Speckert (00:38:09):

That requires the opposing party to be willing to come to the table and have an adult discussion.

RVLTR (00:38:17):

That is true. That is entirely true. I just read a book that addresses all of that. It's called "Loserthink". I strongly advise you and anyone who listens to this to read it, because it's gonna equip you with some tools, persuasion-based tools to decide when it's time to walk away from an unproductive conversation or how in subtle and non-confrontational ways, you can try to convince people that your idea, maybe not as dumb as it seems because it's important, right? You have a great idea. You're doing great work and I think anyone who does anything similar to what you do and it's true for what I do professionally as well, we have to be equipped to be able to convince people that all new ideas are not necessarily bad. And you know, there's precedents out there that we can study. These could be the benefits we gain from changing this or that because you're gonna do it one step at a time. You're not gonna convince everyone that you are correct, but one domino knocks down another one and before, you know, you have enough support to support your idea and you change. Anyway, that's a bit of a digression.

Conrad Speckert (00:39:39):

It's fine. Since this work has started, I found myself reinstalling Twitter. It's very involuntary and reluctant. But partly because Mike Ellison who's an architect in Seattle and a really strong advocate for the single stairs. He's always on Twitter. He's the guy that posted about straw bales just earlier. And I find myself actually surprised by how intelligent Twitter can be. Perhaps it's an echo chamber because I just follow a bunch of other architects. I might speculate and I'm sure my professors at McGill will resent me for saying this, but I learned more on Twitter scrolling during my 30 minute metro ride every morning than I did in a three hour lecture at university. So we might be in a post-truth, post-fact era, but Twitter's been good to me.

RVLTR (00:40:43):

I haven't been on Twitter in a few years. I deleted my account, but I think there's kind of two Twitters. There's the cesspool of trolls Twitter that you really don't wanna engage with because it's just a bunch of angry people either actively trolling, so they don't even mean what they say, but they just wanna get a rise out of you or they're just plain dumb, and they don't really think for themselves and just repeat what they heard elsewhere as if it were truth. And there is a civilized Twitter, I think on very specific topics like maybe you're doing, where you'll have intelligent conversations with people who know what they're talking about and you can learn a lot from it. So I'm not a big fan of social media, but I think using the right way can be a very effective tool where you just have to know how and when to do it. We're not in a post fact world because there's a simple reason for that: architecture is still very much a real life-based discipline where building buildings with materials and if they're not built properly, they're gonna fall down and kill people.

Conrad Speckert (00:41:54):

If you didn't have to apply the building code, you might be in a post-fact world, but obviously we do and hence, we apply in a rational, reasonable way.

RVLTR (00:42:06):

The idea that facts don't matter and laws of science be damned, some people may think that way and I think it's a tiny minority anyway. But the reality is that those people will get hurt in the real world, whether it's literally or figuratively because you cannot - as long as we live in physical bodies made of matter - you can't escape the laws of physics - intellectually you can live in the fantasy you decide to live in, but at some point you have to engage with the real world and that's where the rubber meets the road, in my opinion. So you just mentioned this guy in Seattle and one of my questions was what's really special about Seattle?

Conrad Speckert (00:42:55):

Well, Seattle's a really cool city. It rains a lot, but it's a cool place, but that's not what's exciting. Seattle is the only jurisdiction in North America that lets you build to six stories with a single stair. They call it the Seattle special. They added specific requirements to the Seattle building code way back in 1977 to let you do these point access blocks. What's really exciting too, of course, is that when you look at those dependencies of why the code is the way it is in Canada, well Seattle has a history of wood construction and has a history of suburban sprawl. So culturally and contextually Seattle, it's right on the border with BC, it's a really good reference and precedent for the kinds of code changes we're talking about because, I can talk about codes in Asia and in Europe all day long, but that might just go over someone's head or seem unhelpful when you're talking in a north American context.

RVLTR (00:44:07):

Yes, Seattle Is close to home, right?

Conrad Speckert (00:44:09):

Seattle's close to home. Exactly. And they've had it for over 40 years and there's some beautiful examples of these single stair projects being built. Probably my favorite one is the Capitol hill urban co-housing. I got in touch with the architect that designed this. It's co-housing so they designed it, they live in it, their office is on the ground floor. It's just a dreamy story. When I talked to them, one of the questions was: "Did you look at the code alternative? - If you had to put two stairs or how in your massing options - How did you guys go through this?" They wanted to do it as co-housing, which meant that they found a bunch of other families with limited capital. So in a way it was really about affordability as well. And the single-stair design that ended up getting built has nine units, but they were looking at what would be required if they had to put two stairs and they were only able to actually fit six units. So you lose three units in that scenario.

RVLTR (00:45:14):

Yeah. It's 50% that's crazy.

Conrad Speckert (00:45:16):

That's huge, right? What that does to your costs, your construction costs and your proforma. These are his words: "We no longer would have been able to house the people we wanted to house in this project and probably needed to look for a higher income group of people." And then also if you look at this project, it's just beautiful the way the circulation works. There's this wonderful axonometric drawing that just shows how everything comes together and it's really aspirational. For someone living in Vancouver, this must be so frustrating to know that just across the border, you can do it. But in Vancouver one cannot.

RVLTR (00:46:03):

I'm looking at the website of the architect, it's pretty cool. It's interesting that Seattle has allowed that. You said it introduced that rule in the seventies?

Conrad Speckert (00:46:16):

I spoke with some people from Seattle's building code department and they added the rule in 1977 because at the time they were similar in the way that planning was laid out in Canadian cities. Suburban, single family, lots are being developed closer into the city. You have these small lots. And so really tight floor plans, really tight ability to fit something into it. And I guess in the 1970s they've realized, and they started having conversations with the fire department about: "Can we create a regulatory condition in which a single stair is allowed?" And what came out of that is a bunch of really good rational rules to say, okay, in the current code, the life safety says, you need two stairs. How can we write a code that lets you have one stair? But is arguably as, or safer than what's currently allowed. And so what they added was they said: "Okay, these buildings need to be sprinklered. The stair needs to be pressurized and pressurization is all about blowing air into the stair to positively pressurize it to keep smoke out." For that scale of building with two stairs it's not a requirement. They increased the fire ratings and the biggest thing is they set a maximum limit. And this is really similar to a lot of European jurisdictions. You cannot have more than four apartments on each floor, which is also in terms of livability, quite nice. Because then it's a bit more intimate. Your units are all on corners.It has a whole bunch of other implications for the kind of scale and maybe less anonymous kind of culture in that kind of building.

RVLTR (00:48:17):

That makes a lot of sense. So has there been any studies of the impact of that rule in Seattle since it was implemented?

Conrad Speckert (00:48:26):

None that I've come across.

RVLTR (00:48:32):

Because what would be interesting is to see and pre- and post-rule Seattle and see how the city has changed and been impacted. And I guess it's hard to measure because ideally you'd run an experiment in parallel with two cities, one with the rule and one without, but we don't really have that luxury.

Conrad Speckert (00:48:49):

Studies are interesting because studies rely on data. One of the things that I've been constantly studying isto look at the fire statistics, injuries and deaths across Canada and the US and in Europe and to say: "Okay in jurisdictions where you can do this or even just for that building type, is it safer?" But the problem is that fire statistics, in Canada for instance the way the statistics are collected is in categories. So you're either in a category which is multi-unit building below five storeys, and multi-unit building above five storeys, which means that a six storey building and a 30-story, you know, tower are tabulated in the same way. It's what I've been told by some people that do this for a living, it will be impossible to really extract the concrete, solid argument from these statistics about this issue. In the case of Seattle even though since 1977, vthe, the single stair has been legal, the reality is that there are dozens of these buildings, but there aren't many, there aren't thousands, it's not the predominant building typology of the city in the way that it is in Berlin, Paris or Barcelona, where it's everywhere. It's culturally the norm. And that's a whole other conversation around what is the minimum scale of development that people deem profitable? What is the acceptable profit margin? Just a whole bunch of other questions around land assembly, everything else. It would be really easy if we could go to Seattle and just drive down the street and every building was one of these single-stair specials. But they're kind of gems hidden in the midst.

RVLTR (00:50:48):

I'm sure there's still something to learn from it, but it's also a very locale-specific issue, right? You would have to adapt the rules to every province or every city because they don't have all the same needs. Montreal has a lot of two, three-storey walk ups with like a couple units per floor. So they have much more of that high low-rise typology that allows them to have a much greater density than single family homes that you see dominant in most of Toronto.

Conrad Speckert (00:51:26):

It's funny, I live in Montreal right now, and I've been doing this research entirely while living here. But I kind of smile at the fact that Montreal's the place in Canada that needs this code change perhaps the least, precisely because it has a really good housing stock of triplexes. What's also funny is once you start to go in depth, the triplex has this winding steep exterior stair at the front and these spiral fire escapes in the back, which today with the modern code, you cannot do, but there's some really amazing examples from architects that have done triplexes new construction today. And they've been really smart about finding ways to conform with those current safety requirements in Montreal. But the biggest lesson I think that comes from Montreal is that it's colder in winter than Toronto or Vancouver and it snows more, but its stairs are totally acceptable means of egress. But if you go talk to an architect in Toronto and say you're gonna put an exterior stair, everyone gets really worried, because that just seems irrational or unreasonable. They're super unsafe. But in Montreal they're just ingrained [in the culture].

RVLTR (00:52:52):

Is that a cultural thing or is that a code thing? Because if you wanted to do external stairs in Toronto, can you do that or is that not allowed?

Conrad Speckert (00:53:01):

So explicitly in the building code? Yes. You can do exterior stairs, but once you start to sit down with, you know, authorities and perhaps a fire inspector or plans reviewer, sometimes you actually have to explain to them what the difference is between a fire escape and an exterior stair. And oftentimes that becomes a frustrating, long drawn-out headache. And there's a bunch of other ingrained assumptions. But explicitly in the code, yes, you can do exterior stairs. It's just not conventional practice.

RVLTR (00:53:49):

One of the last questions I had for you is about scissor stairs. Aren't those the solution to the problem?

Conrad Speckert (00:54:02):

So scissor stairs are efficient. And in Canada, scissor stairs count as two exits. But in the US actually, scissor stairs do not. So scissor stairs are only allowed to count as one. Scissor stairs are really cheap and efficient ways to build, pretty much every condo glass tower in Vancouver is a scissor stair building. But one comment I would give about scissor stairs is: it's fine when you're in a tall building and you use the elevator anyways, but to carry your groceries up a scissor stair, or to ever bump into your neighbour on a scissor stair is not gonna happen. And in buildings that are three or four stories, five stories, six stories, these kinds of missing middle mid-rise scale to buildings, a scissor stair will have a huge impact on the cost and the quality of the building. Because you have that corridor separation, stairs that use more space and because these projects are so non-competitive already, the difference in your design between a scissor stair and a single stair has a really huge impact. But obviously if you're doing a 10 or 20 story tower, yeah. The scissor stair is the most rational thing to be doing in the code in Canada

RVLTR (00:55:29):

So there's a qualitative aspect to the stairs as well. If you want to build better housing stock because a lot of those interactions happen in the stairs, you were mentioning bumping into your neighbours or helping the grandma that lives upstairs with their groceries. I think there's a qualitative component that we haven't talked about. That's really important in the way those buildings are built. Because maybe if you don't have a two-stair requirement, you can put, I don't know, 10 to 15% more surface area into the main staircase to make it more of a social component of the building. Isn't that the case?

Conrad Speckert (00:56:06):

Yeah, absolutely. Corridor separation is a really detailed question about whether that stair is open to a landing or not. But beyond just the cost and floor plan efficiency, [it's about ] being able to unlock smaller lots and smaller sites to actually be able to develop on them. There's this whole other conversation about livability that with a single stair, you get these units that can be "through" units. So daylight on both sides and cross ventilation. Mike Ellison actually brought up something, which I hadn't thought about yet, which is the question of urban noise. So if you're in a condo building on an arterial or street in Toronto and you have one orientation, and say it's north-south orientation. One side gets a lot of all the noise from the traffic and all the sun and the other side, it gets neither.

RVLTR (00:57:05):

Well, you see it in Paris or even in France, where there are multiple buildings, but they form an entire block and then there's a big courtyard in the middle. The street in the front is very busy and that's usually where you have the kitchen and living room and then the bedrooms are on the courtyard side where everything is super quiet and you still get a bit of sunlight and some direct ventilation. So that makes a lot of sense.

Conrad Speckert (00:57:30):

It's a way more livable way to build. I'm not surprised that in Canada everyone saves up to the point that they commute far enough out of the city until they can afford a detached house and everyone hates condo buildings and rails against them all the time, because it's really hard to build a pleasant and nice apartment building in Canada.

RVLTR (00:57:56):

I can see that point being very true. I think that was a very interesting conversation. I am out of questions anyway, but any last words of wisdom or thoughts that you want to share with the audience?

Conrad Speckert (00:58:09):

One thing I'll just mention is that the way that we're working on this code change right now is not at all to imply a decrease in safety. The code changes are being developed in ways that either meet or exceed the currently acceptable life safety of having two stairs. And there's a really detailed conversation about that. So to anybody that wants to get in touch with me, support the code change,go to the website and you'll find my email address.

RVLTR (00:58:41):

Www.Secondegress.Ca, correct?

Conrad Speckert (00:58:42):

Yep.

RVLTR (00:58:43):

I'll be sure to put that in the show notes.

Conrad Speckert (00:58:47):

And then maybe one other note is, and this really surprised me is that when I started to look into the codes development system in Canada which is the federal body called CCBFC, the Canadian Commission on Building Fire Codes. For a long period of time, there weren't any architects involved in code development on those committees. I smiled because if there aren't any architects participating in the development of our codes - it's mostly engineers people from the association of sprinklers and the concrete association and fire marshals - if there's no architect advocating on behalf of architecture it's no surprise that we end up with with building codes that are architecturally really restrictive.

RVLTR (00:59:35):

And probably not leading to great quality architecture too, because that qualitative aspect that architects are known to bring to the table is gone. If you ask an engineer how to solve a problem, they're gonna go for the most efficient solution, but they're not necessarily gonna think about is that a workable solution from a usability and pleasantness perspective? So yeah, you make a hugely valuable point in saying that and those problems can't be solved by one body or the other [alone]. It really needs to be collaborative. I think people need to talk to each other and have those difficult conversations, but look at the facts. When people collaborate, you can really come up with great solutions and where the sum is greater than the sum of its parts.

Conrad Speckert (01:00:24):

The other point is that the CCBFC right now has a lot on its plate questions around energy and climate. And so right now they're actually having to prioritize really intensely each code change request that they get. And part of the way that they prioritize things is that they ask each province: "What's a priority for you and your province right now?" So that's an opportunity for anybody who's listened to this. There's a whole discussion that needs to be had in each province to say: "This would be really beneficial to the supply of housing in this province, please at the next discussion of provincial authorities with the codes commission, emphasize the importance of this code change request." Because otherwise it will get buried at the bottom of the stack.

RVLTR (01:01:17):

That's a very good point. Well, I want to thank you very much for taking the time to chat. We ended up talking for a lot longer than we initially anticipated, which is totally fine. It was a very interesting conversation, but I think it's time for us to end. Thank you very much. And hopefully this will help you get the word out there as well. Obviously you don't need my permission, but you're welcome and encouraged to use this podcast once it's released to get people to engage with the topic. Even people who don't know, I think we've covered enough ground today for any newbie to really get a much better understanding of what the issue is and how much of a difference that could make.

Conrad Speckert (01:02:00):

I hope so. Well, thank you very much for having me, Arnaud.

RVLTR (01:02:03):

Thank you. And you're welcome.

Tuesday Mar 29, 2022

Single Serves ep. 306 - Chodikoff on the Image

Tuesday Mar 29, 2022

How can architects, and other professionals, project a positive, effective image that gets them hired?

This is the question that Ian Chodikoff attempted to answer in this interview.

Ian is an architect, editor, curator and design strategist experienced in research, programming, marketing, business development and strategy. He has led communications teams and projects that include learning platforms, exhibitions, publishing, workshops and events.

He has consulted with municipalities, real estate developers, and cultural organizations. He has also led a national architectural association in which he remains a Fellow, directed a monthly architecture publication, led conference programming and currently plays a leadership role for a dynamic interdisciplinary architecture and urban planning firm.

Interview transcript (edited for brevity and clarity):

RVLTR: So can you start by telling us who you are and what you do in your own words in three sentences or less?

Ian Chodikoff (IC): Sure. I'll give it my best shot. I like to think of myself as a synthesizer of ideas within the design profession. I like to think of myself as someone who can speak the different languages spoken by, let's say an engineer versus an architect versus interior designer. And, what I do is develop and consolidate strategy for communication, business development and marketing for firms

RVLTR: That's pretty clear and succint. So the conversation for today, we're going to talk about the image in architecture, when you use the word image in the context of architecture, what do you mean?

IC: That's a very, very good question. And I think it's it's one of those questions that are not always easily answered by firms that seek to project their image. What is it, what is their image to the world? Kevin Lynch came up with this term. He was an urban planner in the sixties that talked about the "imageability" of cities. It's not, you know, technically a word, but it really, if you're to close your eyes or walk away when someone says, you know, firm X, what do you think of them? What is their reputation? What is their level of cultural acumen? How good a designer they are, how good are they with engaging community? And so when I talk about the image in the context of architecture, you know, what is it whether it's a building or really a design practice, what is the image that the public sees when they hear or see their work?

RVLTR: So if we go back to the idea "imageability" from Kevin Lynch, is that what he meant by that? Is that just a neologism used to describe what you just talked about?

IC: Well, I mean it's been a little while, I don't know the exact words, but, for him the city has an identity. You know, cities are in competition with each other Los Angeles versus San Francisco, you know, Paris versus Lyon or Frankfurt versus London. It's pretty clear about the "imageability" of that city. What is that? What does, when someone thinks of Copenhagen, they think of bike lanes, there's an image, that's the imageability of the city. That's the identity of, that kind of ecosystem. He was referencing it in much broader terms. Then when I talk about the image, it's really: is that firm a corporate firm, or is it a boutique firm? Is that firm, really amazing at very tactile design solutions or is that firm really about allowing its users to co-opt its design over time, like a public building would be an example the building that could be co-opted by the users over time. And, and so that's the imageability of that building could be messier gritty, or it could be, you know, sultry and smooth as some new boutique shop in Yorkville.

RVLTR: And so why is the image so critical for architecture firms?

IC: I think it's critical from a competition analysis or marketability of that firm, to know, okay, like "Arnaud's Firm" tackles these kinds of design problems and we see the results that he achieves. And so I think that's useful. So if one was to say "I have a really tough design problem that I need Arnaud to resolve". I know how he would go about doing it. And I think it's not quite the same as saying what style a firm has, because that's a whole other discussion. Especially on interiors or certain types of bespoke housing, we know the kind of hand that goes into designing a particular kind of house, but I think that the image is a more of a broader idea that encompasses the tactics and strategies of how a design firm solves the design problem.

RVLTR: So, it sounds like it almost has more to do with, while being a bit different from, but still being very much linked to the firm's positioning and how they portray themselves to the world as to what their expertise and specialty is.

IC: I think so, I mean for all intents and purposes, whether you choose your firm or my firm, both of our design team will make sure the roof doesn't leak

RVLTR: Generally speaking. Yeah.

IC: Generally speaking, but yeah, we're both gonna be competent. We'll both get the job done. So what's gonna make the difference between the client perceived value about your firm versus our firm who obviously you might charge more than me or vice versa. Maybe that might have a factor, but I think when it comes down to it, it's really : can you do something understated? Can you do something that changes over time? Can you do something that's much more environmentally motivated for a post-carbon future? Can you design a building that engages the entire stakeholder community, if it's a sensitive community center in Toronto, so certain firms have that knack to resolve these types of problems and certain firms are better doing a gorgeous home up in Muskoka. And that's an image of that firm.

RVLTR: Yeah. And I think it touches on what I've been yelling about on rooftops for years that most firms really don't have a clear, differentiated image if we use your term in the public's eye. And that's why most firms have to compete on price because they're not differentiated enough. They don't have enough of an image that distinguishes them from the competition to be able to charge what they want or need to charge. Does that, does that ring a bell to you?

IC: Absolutely. You know, and as you're saying that, you know, I could hear a lot of principals and firms going well. We've been trying to get that public library for many years. If we got, if we got that public library, people would really understand how we're gonna design for a for a community in Malvern or a community in Scarborough or something.

IC: But you know, there are many other things firms can do to add value to their image. And that is maybe get involved with certain boards, do certain charity work. Have some exposure to helping a community set up a garden or a farmer's market. These may not be specifically project-related, but it sets out a precedent for the kind of philosophy that the firm engenders, when you start to look on websites and something, we do all the time. It's like, how are the people conveyed? Are the staff pictures even there? Or do they have a very artificial photo of a staff member holding up a mountain bike? Another one holds up a golden doodle and it's supposed to be like a very work life balance kind of joint. Is that really value for recruitment? Do, do young hires believe in that? Do clients appreciate that? Maybe, maybe not, but you know, some firms you can see that posit themselves as urban minded firms, seeing them out there helping communities is really a golden ticket. And it's a way to project your image without necessarily having that public library under your belt that you're striving to build, a lot of young firms try and get out of that. It's hard to get out of that realm just because of procurement and RFPs and interview process, and maybe the bench strength of your firm. It might be small. And so the client's not gonna take a chance on you and maybe the market currently is very busy, but it's still risk adverse. So what can you do to enhance your image without necessarily waiting for you that moment when you get that gorgeous community library?

RVLTR: Yeah. Or do speculative projects or or there's so many ways that are more, more inspired by, by Guerilla marketing that firms can put themselves on the map. I think the speculative project still works because a client of mine have done has done a few of those in the last couple of years. And every time it's gotten them in the globe mail and a bunch of other outlets, so it may not get them that, that that big project they're looking at, but it certainly puts them on the map. And I know for a fact, I'm pretty sure that they've gotten work as a result of that exposure, even if it's not the work they were presenting to the world. Yeah. So there are ways to kind of bypass the traditional, oh, I gotta fill out RFPs till the cow comes home and hoping I get this job to, to kind of get ahead of the competition. I think it's the firms that are smarter about that and the ones that are kind of do it intuitively they don't have to be told. So I, yeah, you, you're absolutely right. There's a very kind of community almost intuitive way of putting yourself on the map and then there's following everybody else's lead. And I think, following everybody, else's lead is the wrong way to do it because then you're competing with a whole bunch of firms that are trying to do exactly what you're doing.

IC: And this is a very good point. Our firm we do we obviously do a lot of real work. It keeps people very busy and, but some of the work we do takes time to bake takes time to finish. And we feel that we take that thought leadership and trying to distill it down to those speculative projects, because they help engender a discourse. And you're right. We find that when it gets out there and people appreciate it, it helps with the discussion about architecture and design in the city that more than just a transactional basis. And it also certainly is able for people like our team to flex their thought leadership muscle on issues of affordability of equity in the city of technical innovation. So there's a lot of facets to speculative work that will help you leverage the knowledge that you've been gaining, even if there's not a project that will necessarily distill and manifest it, certainly the speculative work can achieve that.

RVLTR: So in your mind, is there a way to kind of classify or define the different kinds of images that a firm projects, or even images of projects themselves? Do you have like kind of a way to sort that out in your mind?

IC: Yeah, I do. You know, I think one of the interesting things about our firm, very smart about developing these research committees or research engines.

RVLTR: So what are the, those?

IC: Those would be, I mean, for us there's issues of housing, the thinking about the post-carbon future, environmental sustainability, there's also, we have a strong committee that helps permeate through the work that we do internally and externally, the sort of the justice equity, diversity and inclusion committee and we have biodiversity, but I think how I would break that down is you go, okay, what are the big issues that clients want to resolve these days? And what can we do to help our clients achieve that? And it's not really rocket science, and there's obviously building regenerative design, so sustainability, there's issues of community. So those are the social issues that, that surround your work. And then there's issues of if your firm touches on landscape or on a larger scale, there's the whole, how do you build better ecosystems, or how does the built environment interact with natural environment? So, it's people, environment, material and innovation is a big thing especially for smaller firms. It's wonderful if you're doing a lot of material investigation and you're doing smaller projects that are really trying out new technologies. So I think those are areas that you can kind of hone in on and, and within those headings, you can nurture some bite size thought leadership pieces that will only contribute to your, how your perspective client sees you.

RVLTR: Because you guys put out a lot of thought leadership from what I can tell and I think more so than most, if not all of the firms that you're competing with. How does that impact the firm first in terms of image and then in terms of how much work it gets?

IC: That's a very good question because I was out last night with a friend of mine, who's a principal, at a very large firm here in Toronto and they have offices across north America. You can very easily burn a lot of money in your research. Research is not always the panacea for achieving work. We all recognize that, our firm recognizes it. His recognizes it. You have to be careful when you plow that investment into research, because it could be more expensive than going after bad RFPs. You also don't want to subsidize, you don't want to give stuff away for free. You don't want to say "You know, Madam developer, look at this fabulous thought leadership we have, we can save you some money" and they take it, thank you very much and go to a firm that's cheaper and doesn't do research. So you have to watch that input and how it comes back to the firm. I think for us one thing it does right away is improves morale and gets people motivated and excited about the work that we do. That's certainly a huge direct benefit. Another benefit is it helps with gaining trust. So I think in some ways it's almost not what the work does, but how is the work received? When a client looks: "We may not see a direct value in that research you did Mr. Chodikoff, but we love the firm. You guys are obviously full of a lot of gearheads and visionaries. We want to hire you."

RVLTR: So you've been in the industry for some time now, how have things changed or evolved over the past 20 years and specifically in terms the image and how people market themselves?

IC: That's a good question. Sometimes, I wonder how I managed to be in this industry for so long. I think it's changed in the sense that nothing is to be taken for granted. When I started in the industry, we were in a recession, it was hard for folks like my age to even get work. It was it was a struggle. And then the economy picked up and turned around, but as I was coming out of school, a lot of firms really took a devastating hit in the late nineties with the economy or especially firms that put all their money in one market, maybe that has changed for a variety of reasons, but it used to be, you know, a firm would only be doing social housing, a firm would only be doing condos or retail. So I think firms are much more capable of diversifying even at all scales. The larger firms obviously in the last 20 years, there's been a huge amount of consolidation. In order to harvest the market or harvest sectors within the market, firms like dialogue and Cannon and Perkins + Will and others have to buy up other firms so that ythey can say they did a library in the last six months, a hospital in the last year at a certain scale or size. And that competition for those kinds of projects are has certainly increased. And so firms needed to buy up one another and merge. That's something that's interesting because in doing so they're hedging their bets, both in markets and in sectors. Another thing I think that is the smaller firms are much more capable of finding more interesting collaborative work because the the nature of networking has been facilitated. You can collaborate with someone in Europe, much more easily than you could 20 years ago. The internet allows you to find like-minded people more quickly. Always technology. I believe it's not the technology, it's the people that technology brings together. And I think that has enabled new things to happen. And I think the gap between manufacturing and design is narrowed and has allowed smaller design firms to do furniture, lamps, or other specialty equipment in a building that may not have been so tenable 20 years ago, but with different methods of manufacturing and collaboration that's now more readily achievable.

RVLTR: So how would your variety of experiences from architect and urban planner to event organizer and magazine editor shaped your opinion on architecture marketing?

IC: Well, at times it may have made me more cynical, but I shouldn't be saying that. In all seriousness it's allowed me to really meet the diversity of practitioners that are out there. It's really quite extraordinary, the energy and the imagination that happens at all generations of designer, all backgrounds of designers. Certainly my career showed me that all bets are off, you know? I don't know why Virgil Abloh comes into mind where he was trained as an architect and then became a fashion designer. And I don't know if he would be the iconic image of how the profession has changed, but the culture of architecture and design is blurred. Architects have always taken influence from so many other creative pursuits, whether it's the visual arts film or music, but it seems that that kind of academic influence has now become realistic influence in the way people practice. So through my exposure to this range and I've been blessed by meeting architects from all over the world and all backgrounds or most of the backgrounds, and you can't say all backgrounds, but certainly under, you know minorities underrepresented architects, architects of colour, indigenous architects, women... Seeing the leadership capacities change about what is leadership in the profession too has given me a lot of food for thought and a lot of excitement because when I started it really, it was much more of a narrow focus about what it means to be the star architect, the master builder, the generalist, that kind of verbiage doesn't seem to apply anymore. It seems to be much more entrepreneurial and socially motivated. And that is very exciting to me.

RVLTR: I can see that because when I started school by 20 years ago, architecture school, that is you know, the big names were still the the Frank Gehrys and Rem Koolhaases and Tom Maynes of the world. That was the kind of aspiration. I think - I have no actual evidence of that - but based on what I see around the industry, it seems like this has waned a little bit and there's more of a diversity, it's almost like the internet has democratized design in a way where you don't have to be superstar architect to gain traction. If you have a decent project or cool idea, the internet might give you a break and push you to the forefront. It requires an incredible amount of luck too, because good work is not the only parameter that needs to be fulfilled. But I think there's more of a democratization of access to the public as an architect than there ever was.

IC: You're bringing up some interesting points and I don't profess to have all the answers, but you know, it used to be, if you were published in a particular magazine print, if you had a monograph print, maybe you had an exhibition in real life, maybe you made it to the serpentine gallery as a designer, the Venice Biennale, there were certain points that would be on your bucket list to become your superstar architect. And some of those are still very important and still remain in effect, I guess they all do to some degree, but you can do a lot to circumvent that if you don't make it, if you don't think you'll make it. Of course, the challenge is, you can get a lot of "B+" architects out there, meaning the ones that just reside under the so-called "A-level", you can get a lot of B+ maybe even the "B-" ones that aren't even building anything, but they can put on a hell of a show on their landing page, but what have they done for the society lately. They have some ideas, but it's not realized, there's no real clients, they haven't really been tested by builders. So, you know, it's like so many other things in the last 20 years with social media on the internet, what is real and what is fake? What is your, is your "imageability" - back to that issue - Is it a big bubble of nothingness or do you have a lot to back it up? And then there are also a lot of people that do amazing work and have very little presence on the web. Sometimes we all look at images now and is that real? Is that a rendering or did that get built? And if it did get built, is it [photographed] on a perfect day when there's no people or no cars or the first day it was opened, but not five years later? Where is the grittiness?

RVLTR: I remember when I was in school, towards the end of my studies, a dozen or so years ago, I spent a lot of time on blogs, like ArchDaily at the time. And then I started realizing that they put a lot of unbuilt projects on there, basically renderings. And after seeing a couple of those first before being built, so as a rendering online and then the project being built later on and being highly disappointed in the finished project, not living up to the expectations of the renderings, I really became skeptical of looking at renderings online, because they're always very sexy obviously. But the reason I'm saying this is because to your point of like maybe B+ or even B- architects can make a splash online, but I think for anyone who knows the industry and has been around long enough it's very easy to see through that, even with beautiful pictures of a finished project. I certainly, and maybe I'm a bit biased because I look at projects day in and day out and I photograph them too, but I can look at pictures of a project, even if I haven't seen it in person and almost instantly gauge the quality of the building itself, like how well detailed it is, how well built it is. So I think if you look at that long enough, you can't really fool anyone. You might fool the general public who doesn't know about architecture and there could be a danger in there because they're the ones who are going to hire you. But I think there's still something to be said about long-term reputation. And if you do too much work that doesn't live up to the expectations for whatever reason, that's gonna catch up to you at some point. You only get so many free passes before your reputation is destroyed. I think that leads us to an interesting point over the reality of social media and its influence on the architecture industry. Can you explain - in your mind - the the myth and realities of social media for the for design firm?

IC: Well, I think this is a tough question again, you know, I don't want tp sound like The Economist. It says: "Well, it depends" but I think these are the discussions we have a lot, both internally and with my colleagues is that the key to a successful design platform is that it has to be consistent. You have to deliver consistent content over your platforms day in and day out, it's a bit of a churn. And with that pressure to be consistent, sometimes you're just throwing a past project, a current project and stuff out, and you're just putting stuff to fill the air. So you shouldn't necessarily be doing that. LinkedIn is different from Instagram, which is different from Twitter and, and all of them have their own characteristics. And I think they all have their own value, Instagram still trends younger, but Instagram is much more effective, I think for firms whose work - I don't wanna say their work is commodified because I don't want to sound patronizing - but if you're doing, sexy interior, sexy retail, you can just take a cool photo of a light. You can take a photo of a handrail. You know, those things work well on Instagram because people kind of get the gist with very small tangible items, the larger ineffable things of public buildings, for example, universities, hospitals you know, community centers, that's harder to convey in an exciting way on Instagram or even on social media, generally. What it does do, Instagram's really good for conveying the culture of a firm. I think that's one aspect too. Obviously again, the small jewel-like projects go very well on social because they're quick and digestible. But cultural things work well, some firms, put a lot of photos of their team on site or maybe their team has these sort of parties or event and those things can work well. And then other platforms are much more effective at conveying policy elements, housing, affordability, sustainability. Those are, those are prime examples of that. So many of my colleagues, they do a presentation, they do a conference, they do a talk. During COVID, you can be doing five conferences in five different cities, one day it's very easy, because you can just do it all virtually and you can project that out onto LinkedIn and your website to kind of prove your chops in terms of a particular facet of the work that you're doing. I think you can achieve some success with that. It is a communication board. It is a mouthpiece. But I guess it's always important to be authentic because sometimes these you're sending out messages and it can be kind of normative. "Well, so what if you're doing geothermal isn't everyone? Well, so what if you achieveLEED Gold?" People used to joke about achieving LEED gold.

RVLTR: I think you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that this is generally true. I think most people and firms alike get on social media without really thinking about what that will do for them, or what's the purpose of getting on social media because let's, let's be frank, we've all been at that point where everybody gets on Instagram and then you feel left out. So you're gonna get on Instagram - and I remember my Instagram started by just posting pictures of food and my new bike and whatever stupid stuff that no one cares about - 12 years ago, like way, way back when it started. But I think when people get more serious about social media and they start spending a lot more time and resources to strategize and curate the content that's gonna be on there, one of the questions that they rarely ask themselves is: "Why should we be on this platform to begin with what is it gonna do for us?" And I think there's a bit of a rat-race happening on social media, especially with Instagram, like the more visual ones because everybody's on there, there's a huge network effect of people thinking: "Oh, if everyone is on there, I need to be on there too." Without really questioning the reason why. And I think that's an issue with a lot of firms' endeavour on social media because, some firms clearly benefit from it and have become masters at it, so there's no question it can be useful, but I think too many firms just do that and they kind of half-ass to do what their friends do, but not really make sure that it serves them. I know this is just an example of one, but I haven't been on social media except for LinkedIn for over two years now and it hasn't affected my bottom line. As a matter of fact, I made more money since I stopped being on social media than I had before. So it's not necessarily really an argument to say: "Well, I have to do it for my marketing." What kind of results do you get out of it is the real question. And if that doesn't serve you, why are you on there? What are your thoughts on that?

IC: I think that's key. I think the website is your basis.

RVLTR: The website is the brochure everyone needs to have. That's kind of a given

IC: When your client goes Googling they're gonna be looking for you - hopefully - on the website and Instagram or any social media platform they all have. I think you have to be clear about what kind of audience are you going after? If you're, if you're a larger firm and you need to recruit people, you need to be on the new young hires' radar, social media is good.

RVLTR: Yeah. I have a friend who's a medium-size, firm design firm principal, and the only reason they have an Instagram account is for recruitment purposes. So they know that. Some people are very clear on that.

IC: You might be involved with the cultural industry and you're involved with museums, there might be an aspect of your work that will tie into other discussions online. And I think that's a fair assessment. Retail would be a good example. It's often very specialized lighting applications and specialized hardware. And linking that to a broader discussion is useful. For ourselves, when we're dealing with transit or with housing, we wanna be part of that larger conversation because we're players in that market and we need to assert ourselves in that online discourse. Whether it's comments online, Twitter and LinkedIn are very helpful, because we're engaging with city planners or municipal bureaucrats who tend not maybe be so visual, they may be more policy oriented. So we wanna be part of that discussion. So whether your discussion is through text or visuals, just understand "What kind of conversation do you wanna be part of?" I think is maybe a good question. Good place to start.

RVLTR: So if you were to do a media campaign to promote a project, if you did it well, you were gonna really think about the kind of publications you want to target and you're gonna write your media kit specifically to target those publications. So I think when it comes to marketing, it has to be the same thing. If you're thinking about getting on social media, if you're not already on there, or even if you're already on there, the real question is: "Is the audience you're targeting on those platforms?" If you're, if you're a high-end or even a mid-range residential designer and all you do is like houses between $2 and $5 million of property value, then you know that your target's probably on Pinterest maybe on things like Houzz, maybe a little bit on Instagram, but so the platforms you're gonna target are different from, if you are a company that does large institutional projects where you probably more likely to target the proper audience on LinkedIn, in trade magazines, places where the property managers or the building managers hang out, things like that. Does that make sense?

IC: Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes we've all been there where your campaign might be to target [only] five people that you might be able to identify by name and you almost wanna know: "Where do they hang out?" You could get very granular and drill down to that level.

RVLTR: And I would say be creative too, because if you know that person X goes to that restaurant every day, maybe the best approach is to go hang out at that restaurant and approach them in person.

IC: Maybe yeah. Or if you want to do cultural buildings go hang out at the art fairs. That's a whole other aspect of marketing. I remember few years ago I was doing some consulting work with a healthcare firm and, you know, I showed up at a healthcare conference. I was the only architect in the room.

RVLTR: How many leads did you get out of this?

IC: I got a couple leads. It was remarkable. I certainly was do not profess to be a healthcare expert, but as an architect, we can translate issues into a visual solution, more readily than someone who's not an architect, that's sort of what we do. And just being there was appreciated because you're in the healthcare profession and you, and you're planning facilities you don't know who to turn to. You don't know what's out there, you don't know where to start.

RVLTR: I think that's a telling example, because an acquaintance of mine is both a licensed architect and an MD and she's been fighting for years to connect the two worlds because her whole thesis is that they're too disconnected and that's why a lot of medical buildings don't work very well. She's probably the only one in the world and maybe one of a handful that has that kind of education. So it speaks a lot to having the ability to zig when everybody else zags and see opportunities where no one else sees them. I think that's a very valuable lesson. Because you've been in this industry and especially looking at marketing for so long, are there some particularly egregious mistakes that you see firms making over and over when they market themselves that you can pinpoint?

IC: Yeah. It's often the case of "on time, on budget." We're hiring you to be on time and on budget you say you're gonna be on time and on budget. It's like to market that you - when someone says "Can we have a three o'clock appointment?" and you're gonna market yourself: "I always show up at my three o'clock appointments", it's not great. And you can do better than that. There's a lot of the stating of the obvious. And I think people pick up on a lot of the jargon and so you're afraid not to use it. Again, you don't wanna be the outlier and a lot of firms have that attitude. The idea of a multidisciplinary, transdisciplinary, pluri-disciplinary firm yeah, that's useful. But by nature if we don't have that expertise in house, then we work with them through our consultant base. So I find that a little bit of a weak statement.

RVLTR: I've written a few of those very generic paragraphs that basically summarize 90% of what the architecture firms say on their website: We're a full service, multidisciplinary, diverse group of architects who designs buildings. I mean, this is a gross exaggeration, but those kinds of things don't stand out because everybody else is saying them. So I think it's very important to remember.

IC: That's a hard thing. I don't blame partners or leadership for being afraid to drop it.

RVLTR: Why not?

IC: Well, because I'm not, I'm being kind, but you're competing at brinkmanship. You feel like: "Oh, if I take my hand off the button and say: 'I'm not multidisciplinary', people are gonna think I'm not multidisciplinary, and they're gonna go to the next guy."

RVLTR: Clients probably don't even know what that means. Do they?

IC: Some do and some awesome clients are pretty sophisticated, hey can always hire a couple other people, you know, they don't need to [hire us] but for smaller projects, it's useful to have certain in-house services depending on what it is. SvN is very unique in that we're a pretty intensive planning operation and we are an architecture firm. There are not too many firms that can say that so we can stick handle difficult projects through the approvals process and get them built with a higher degree of confidence than our competition, because they don't have that multidisciplinary component. And I think it's an achievement. So I think it's a bona fide statement to say that we are a multidisciplinary firm. That being said, I just think that the term or that direction can sometimes lead to a client [that] may not be able to distinguish our multidisciplinary firm next to the other multidisciplinary firm. So we have to take [the] next steps to really clarify that for our client. And we do do that through other means that try and leverage our tactical muscle.

RVLTR: I think it's important to say that being multidisciplinary is not a bad thing at all, if anything, it's an asset, but when everybody else is trying to claim that as their superpower, then it's not a superpower anymore. You'll have to present yourself in a different way that may still touch on the fact that you're multidisciplinary or transdisciplinary, but also presents you portrays you as different from the competition. I think that's the key. It's just not the first thing necessarily you should put on your website because - and I've done that exercise where you go look at a few dozen websites, if not hundreds, and I know people who've done that with thousands of architecture websites, I don't know how they've had the patience to do that - But if you did that and look the keywords, you quickly start seeing the ones that repeats themselves all the time, multidisciplinary, diverse, whatever. I think it's just not the first thing clients should see, because if you're gonna look at 10 architects who do what you do, and they see the same thing on all the landing pages, then say in their mind: "I can't tell them apart". And so the best way to tell them apart is on price. So the cheaper one will always get the job. It always comes down to that. So it's not necessarily that you don't want to be those things it's that you just want to present yourself in a different way that makes you stand out as unique. And I've talked a lot to advertising people, especially on this podcast, because I think there's a lot of really good lessons about marketing to be learned from advertising. And most advertising is total shit. 90% of it. And there's a number of reasons for that. But occasionally you'll see a very creative ad come out and usually they're funny or quirky or some variation thereof or some of them can be like really emotional., hat works too, like tear-jerkers almost. But the ones that are effective at keeping brand X on top of your mind are the ones that stand out one way or another. And they're usually also very effective commercially. One of the best examples is the Snickers campaign. They ran a few years ago: "You're not you when you're hungry". And I think the first one of that series were people playing rugby. And then all of a sudden, one of them gets knocked to the ground and turns into a famous old actress that just died this last year. She was already old at the time. And then she eats the Snickers and then turns back into this young, healthy, energetic man.

IC: Betty White?

RVLTR: Betty White that's right.

IC: Bless her.

RVLTR: And, and those were great. I hate Snickers. I would never buy one of those, but the fact that I remember it and the reality is that it also increased their bottom line. They sold more Snickers after those campaigns than they ever had before. So I think there's a true value commercially in standing out. It's just that too many people are afraid of it.

IC: It's hard. because it's you want to build trust with the client. The work we do is [challenging], we have to embed ourselves with the clients [who are] taking a chance on us. If they're building their own home, it's probably the most expensive thing they've ever done in their lives. If it's an institution it could have huge effects on fundraising. So that's a lot on the line. I think it's very easy to kind of drop some of the humour and be very serious and trust -ased. But to your point, to stand out you have to present your differentiator. I mean, candy bars are sort of hard to present your differentiator. In architecture, we're a multidisciplinary firm which SvN is. How do you project that don't sound like it's cliche or platitude? How do you build trust without conveying arrogance? That's another thing. I know anecdotally, I've been on a lot selection committees and juries over a number of years. Sometimes when the architect comes in and sits at the edge of the table after he has given his talk in front of the board, casually sitting there going: "You know, Arnaud, we'll build your student residence. We'll build it on time and on budget, We've got a multidisciplinary office, we'll do a great job". The client might get scared because it's almost arrogant because it's kind of like: "were you not even listening to us?" Versus: "I've heard that [for] that particular project, it went to another firm and I know the client said: 'We chose this other firm because they came to us.' We actually don't know what we're gonna do. Because we haven't talked to anybody. We haven't talked to the community, we haven't talked to the students. We haven't fully fleshed [it] out with you. We don't know, but we're set up to listen. We're set up to go through the process. And we're pretty confident that when we go through that process, we'll come up with, with a solution that will benefit everyone." It turns the conversation around. Not trying to toot our own horn too much, I know SvN kind of touts itself as "listen first". It's a big thing for the firm, big tenet. It could sound kind of cheesy, but it's important. Because if you are arrogant, that's a trust-breaker. That's not good, no one likes an arrogant person on the first date, no one likes to hire an architect who's arrogant. Architects are arrogant enough as they are. That trust is important. If you eat that Snickers bar, you'll remember who you are all along. So if you're an architect that listens first maybe your client will feel like, you know that you will see them for who they are.

RVLTR: That's a very good point. It's not actually not that hard once you learn how to do it properly to ask questions and just listen, because all you gotta do is ask, you can learn everything about a potential client by asking four or five, maybe six questions. That's all you need to do. And then the conversation will go from there, but that's all you need to start with. And that reveals so much more about your clients, which gives you the knowledge as a service provider. You need to be able to offer a solution that suits them. Obviously there's a lot more that goes into designing buildings for clients, but as a starter conversation, that's really all you need. And I think in the industry it would be beneficial if people said things about themselves less and demonstrated it [their expertise] more in their actions. Instead of saying you're multidisciplinary, maybe it's time to think about how you can show that to your clients, through your actions. So instead of sending the principal architect to a meeting with the clients, maybe you send a team of people and that could include the architect, but to [also] show that actually it's important for that portion of the team to be there because they need to know about the client too, or they can't design a building otherwise. And that's just a silly example. Maybe that's not the right way to do it, but just to think about how to do things differently, that will make you appear as if you're not just trying to get a job, but you genuinely care about doing good work for that client. And that will come with fees and profit and whatever. Obviously everybody needs that. But more listening. I certainly think that would be a great asset to a great many firms.

IC: I think that that's a really important part. Makes me think of some of these firms where on their website, it's really just the two partners and everyone else.

RVLTR: Yeah.

IC: And you go: "Is that partner gonna be answering my call or email at 10 o'clock at night when I'm worried about something, and I trust that partner that's looking all glam to answer my calls or do I wanna know that there's a whole team that's gonna back me up?" Trying to build off what you're saying, you wanna project a sense that there's not just one person, there could be dozens that can back you up and having that teamwork, having that relationship. That's a strong selling feature. I think a lot of firms miss that opportunity to project that dialogue that you engage with when you hire an architect,

RVLTR: There's never just one person. And sometimes the person who claims to be behind the masterpiece is not even doing any work, they're just basically lending their name to it. So yeah, it's a very good point.

IC: I always remember once: it was a very, very large public building and I was on the selection committee. I was consulting. They paid along the way and we had a series of interviews and one architect firm, very high profile didn't get the job because the principal was saying: "You know, I'm working on this big project, I'm working on that project, I'm handling this, I'm flying out there." And the client was like: "Well who are we gonna call? Are you gonna handle our project? And what other projects are you working on?" And he's like: 'Oh, I'm handling them all. They're all under my charge. Don't worry." And we're scratching our heads going: "Well, that's just not possible. There's not enough hours in the day" Versus the teams that did better would bring in the principal and the more junior staff, they're all in the room, they're all going for the interview. And it's like, woo, we've got a team here. That's a strong selling feature. We've got a team. We just hired this new landscape architect. We're not even an architecture firm, but we've got a landscape architect. When you walk in and go: "You hire us, we just picked up this amazing woman. She just came out of this program. She's doing all this award-winning stuff, we're so glad to have her on the team. She's got a couple years experience. Boy, she's a good designer, but worry not, I've got you and I can handle it. So you have the range and the client would sit there and go: "My god".

RVLTR: What if something happens to the principal even if they just get the flu for two weeks? Is the project stopping? It's important to think about. I think we've covered most of the questions I had for you. The last one I have is if you had one piece of advice for any architecture firm regarding how they market themselves, what would it be?

IC: First, be authentic, really sell how you solve a problem. When a client is gonna hire you, whether you're going for your first job or whether you're going for a major airport, when it comes down to the wire, if both your firm and my firm, Arnaud, we both did these great airports. You know, yours might have been in Paris. Mine might have been in Berlin, but when it comes down to it, what's our team and what's our people? So I think really selling the people behind every design. I think that's, that's the greatest asset you can go with.

RVLTR: That's a great piece of advice. And I would add to that, think of every touch point with your potential client as an opportunity to sell. Even if you're not saying anything, but just by the way you act. Things as simple as showing up a few minutes early, whatever the case maybe, there's so many things you can do. That's a thing that a lot of people tend to forget and I have forgotten it in the past too, but I think ultimately people judge you by all those micro touch points that happen throughout the interaction. And when you work on a project that lasts for years you don't necessarily have to maintain the perfect standard because nobody's perfect. But it has to be at a certain level throughout. There's also the fact that as projects get longer and longer, you have to work harder to maintain the same level of trust. Because trust tends to wane a bit over time. So if you don't work extra hard to maintain that trust that's that could bite you in the ass.

IC: That's a good point. And it's consistency.

New Speaker:

RVLTR: That's a perfect way to summarize it. Consistency. This was a great conversation. We went in many different directions, but all kind of somewhat relevant to the topic of the image. So I want to thank you very much for giving some of your time to this podcast. And I look forward to the next conversation.

IC: Arnaud, I appreciate it. I appreciate your authenticity. I appreciate your consistency and your, your reliability.

RVLTR: You're very welcome.

Tuesday Mar 15, 2022

Single Serves ep. 305 - Schliemann on Placemaking

Tuesday Mar 15, 2022

What makes a good “place”?

This a notoriously difficult to answer, but Udo Schliemann, past guest, renowned graphic designer and accomplished artist attempts to answer that question through the lens of his own expertise and experience, with a focus on the olympics as a way to build community.

Udo is a designer and principal creative director at Entro. He was born and raised in Germany and spent half of his career there, notably being mentored by Anton Stankowski, before moving to Canada and landing at Entro.

Wednesday Mar 02, 2022

Single Serves ep. 304 - Blonder on Smart Density

Wednesday Mar 02, 2022

Naama Blonder has a bold vision to change what good development can and should look like. With that in mind, she co founded Smart density in 2017. Her professional work spans across planning and architecture. And by marrying the two disciplines, she brings a deeper and more realistic understanding of how municipal policies take physical.

She's also the subject matter expert for the city of Toronto expanding housing options in our neighborhoods committee, a board member of Cahuilla an affordable housing provider. She also coauthored the housing affordability report of the Ontario association of architects and served at the design review panel for the city of Burlington, where she provided urban design advice for development applications.

Last, but not least, she practices what she preaches and lives with her husband and child in a multifamily building in a transit accessible area of Toronto near the local park.

Notes from the interview:

Namaa’s Mini Mid-Rise

Hi-Lo prototype by Phaedrus Studio

Wednesday Feb 16, 2022

Single Serves ep. 303 - Tannenbaum on Impactful Communications

Wednesday Feb 16, 2022

George Tannenbaum has spent well over half of his life in the advertising business yet he still manages to be a nice and very funny guy. He currently makes a living working directly for clients and agencies.

Before that, George worked at illustrious outfits, such as Ogilvy helping run his dream account: IBM. He also worked for R/GA, Hal Riney and Partners, Ally & Gargano, and Lowe. In the course of his career, his work has earned many awards, and he also writes a popular advertising blog called "Ad Aged" which I recommend you read because it's very funny.

Some things mentioned in the podcast:

George’s rules for measuring the quality of your messaging.

The Remy Julienne FIAT ad.

Nissan Pathfinder “Dog Love Trucks” ad.

Tuesday Feb 01, 2022

Single Serves ep. 302 - Spoke on Citizen-Driven City Building

Tuesday Feb 01, 2022

Chris Spoke is the founder and ceo of August, a Toronto-based agency that designs and builds digital products. He's also the founder of Skyline, a weekly newsletter that tracks Toronto's growth and development and a fierce advocate for smart, future-proof city building.

Chris and I connected over our shared interest in city building, especially as it relates to the political hot-potato issue of the missing middle.

Tuesday Jan 18, 2022

Single Serves ep. 301 - Nodrick on Making Space for Creativity

Tuesday Jan 18, 2022

Jonathan Nodrick is the founder of Rollout, a custom wallpaper company. Jon Started Rollout over 15 years ago with the vision to create a company where creativity could strive. A place where creativity and art could coexist with design to make as a viable commercial enterprise that would have the power to invigorate, inspire and shake up established notions of wallpaper design. You may have encountered rollout in the myriad projects their wallpapers have been specified or one of the many installations they've created for the industry with illustrious partners, such as the Interior Design Show or Design Milk. Today, Jonathan and I will talk about making space for creativity, literally and figuratively.

Monday Oct 25, 2021

Single Serves ep. 215 - Krug on Innovating in the Residential Sector.

Monday Oct 25, 2021

Catherine Krug is the Product Director at R-Hauz, which provides prefabricated residential buildings for landowners and real estate investors. Catherine is responsible for the "Design Outcome", defining and optimizing the R-Hauz product line in terms of user needs and functionality, marketability, and pricing.

R-Hauz came to be in 2018 to provide affordable & sustainable housing for urban families. They design, build and deliver turn-key mass-timber residential buildings, that can be customized to fit the market needs.

This is our third installment in a series of interviews on mass-timber architecture that we've had on this podcast. Check out our other episodes on the subject, number 108 and 204 with Andrew Waugh and Michael Green respectively.

Tuesday Oct 05, 2021

Single Serves ep. 214 - Thomson on Revisiting the Modern Classics

Tuesday Oct 05, 2021

Andy is the principal and founder of Thomson Architecture, Inc. A graduate of UBC's School of Architecture in 2003, Andy's 24 yrs of experience in Germany, the US and Canada in the field of green design & construction combined with his love of the outdoors, informs the work we do today. When Andy isn't glued to the computer, he can be found windsurfing, cycling, or riding electric skateboards. Andy speaks English, German and French.

Andy and I talked about hid interest in using mid-century modern designs that we issued by the CMHC between the 40's and the 70's as part of their "pattern books" comprising set of designs that homeowners could purchase for a nominal sum and then build. His goal is to adapt these plans to the 21st century in order to promote a higher degree of sustainability in residential architecture while advocating for a return to simpler, smaller dwellings that do less with more.

Check it out to learn more about his endeavour and his philosophy of design.

Tuesday Sep 14, 2021

Single Serves ep. 213 - Rubinoff on Urban Community-building

Tuesday Sep 14, 2021

Matt Rubinoff is a creative problem solver and the founder of Stackt market. Beginning his career in marketing and communications, he later shifted his focus to real estate and marketing with Tusk Global Limited. As president, he developed a clear vision for an interactive public space that encourages community connection, which eventually turned into Stackt.

Stackt is a unique marketplace occupying vacant land in downtown Toronto aimed at connecting brands, people and delivering experiences that keep evolving.

Matt envisions the concept of Stackt popping up in other locations. And the genesis, present of future of places like Stackt is what we will discuss today.

You can learn more at stacktmarket.com

Monday Aug 23, 2021

Single Serves ep. 212 - Goldreich on The 4.5-Day Work Week

Monday Aug 23, 2021

Amos Goldreich graduated Architectural Association in London in 1999, and subsequently worked for a number of London firms, including the likes of David Chipperfield, Stanton Williams, Haworth Tompkins and Feilden Clegg Bradley Studios. In 2010, Amos established Amos Goldreich Architecture, which is heavily involved in social projects. Amos is also part of the think tank Architects Aware, actively working to fight London's growing homelessness.

I wanted to interview Amos about his recent switch to a 4.5-day work week for his entire office and discuss with him the benefits, drawbacks and challenges.

Check it out, perhaps it will inspire you to do the same!

Tuesday Jul 13, 2021

Single Serves ep. 211 - McCartney on Design Firms Websites

Tuesday Jul 13, 2021

Bryon McCartney is the "Chief Idea Guy" at Archmark, architecture branding and marketing in Vermilion, Ohio. Bryon has had a lifelong love of architecture and design and for the past several years, the Archmark team has focused on helping clients in the architecture, engineering and construction fields.

In fact, the Archmark team has set the very ambitious goal to bring value to a hundred thousand architects by 2030 by helping firms improve how they use branding, marketing, website design and lead generation to build productive and profitable relationships with prospects, partners and promoters.

The following interview is our conversation with Bryon on the aforementioned topics.

Tuesday Jun 29, 2021

Single Serves ep. 210 - Plumpton On Innovating In The Public Realm

Tuesday Jun 29, 2021

John Plumpton is an architect with 25 years of experience, primarily in the areas of: attractions, food service and mixed use projects. He started RevelHouse in 2015, serving the aforementioned sectors, but specifically focusing on these in the Canadian market.

During the pandemic he released a series of speculative projects called "Revellious" aimed at analyzing how people used public spaces in the city.

This is our latest interview with him where we discussed how to make better cities and specifically public space in Toronto.

Wednesday May 26, 2021

Single Serves ep. 209 - Schliemann on Evidence-Driven Design

Wednesday May 26, 2021

Udo Schliemann is a designer and principal creative director at Entro. He's also an accomplished artist and all-around creative. He was born and raised in Germany and spent half of his career there, notably being mentored by Anton Stankowski, before moving to Canada and landing at Entro.

We discussed creativity, the importance of science-based, evidence-driven design and decision making as well as our shared love of Judo.

Thursday May 13, 2021

Single Serves ep. 208 - McDade on Planned Building Obsolescence

Thursday May 13, 2021

Clair Marie McDade is an architect and data scientist with extensive experience designing institutional buildings for the public sector. After more than 10 years as a practicing architect, she became frustrated with the seemingly short lifespan of new buildings and decided to investigate the causes of this phenomenon. This resulted in her founding Archneura and creating the Building Quality Index (BQI) as a way to leverage modern data science to enable her customers to make better decisions regarding the building and maintenance of their building stocks.

I wanted to interview Clair Marie because she recently launched a funding campaign* to get her business, Archneura, off the ground and I am a big fan (and early investor) of her invention as it is bringing the operation and maintenance of buildings in the 21st century, with a strong sustainable bent.

This is another example of what innovation can look like for the building industry. While it’s still too early to gauge the success of her offering, I think it’s worth checking on its premise alone: reducing costs and increasing building lifespans while significantly reducing the amount of waste that the builfing industry generates.

Tuesday Apr 27, 2021

Single Serves ep. 207 - de Oliveira on World Domination

Tuesday Apr 27, 2021

Carlos de Oliveira is a structural engineer, inventor, designer and entrepreneur. Carlos is the co-founder of Cast Connex and is a foremost expert in the design and use of steel castings in building and bridge construction.

I wanted to interview Carlos because he does great work and exemplifies what it means to choose an area of expertise where there is few competitors and develop products or services that lead one to dominate a narrow niche market.

There are literally no competitors that do what Carlos does and the story of Cast Connex is a fascinating one.

Here are a couple of quotes gleaned from the interview:

"Specialization can be an incredible tool for success"

"I think of the status quo as being our biggest competitor"

Tuesday Apr 13, 2021

Single Serves ep. 206 - Fashina on Hospitality Design

Tuesday Apr 13, 2021

Dyonne Fashina is the Founder and Principal Designer at Denizens Of Design, an Interior Design Studio specializing in hospitality and branded environments. Recently, Dyonne has focused on research in design strategy - the business value that good design thinking brings to a project, and the focus of our conversation.

Tuesday Mar 30, 2021

Single Serves ep. 205 - Chan on Leadership in Times of Crisis

Tuesday Mar 30, 2021

Joanne Chan is a designer and Principal at workplace design firm SDI Design in Toronto. When the pandemic hit, her rich experience as a woman leading an established design firm served her well. It turns out it wasn't her first rodeo and she was able to tap into past crisis experiences to navigate these murky waters more effectively. We talked about what it means to be a leader, what to do when the shit hits the fan and the importance of mentorship, among many other things.

Tuesday Mar 16, 2021

Single Serves ep. 204 - Green on Alternative Architectural Practices

Tuesday Mar 16, 2021

Michael Green has established himself as a leader in sustainable mass-timber architecture. producing buildings that have challenged the norm and open the path for other practices to design with mass timber. What's not as well known is that he is equally focused on designing buildings that contribute to their users' well being and enable, rather than impede.

This conversation dives a deeper into the essence of Michael Green Architecture and what makes it so innovative, as well as what lessons can be gleaned from Green's experience and applied to the practice of architecture.

Tuesday Mar 02, 2021

Single Serves ep. 203 - Soldatova on Women in Design

Tuesday Mar 02, 2021

Tatiana Soldatova is an interior design, professor, entrepreneur and Partner at Syllable, a Toronto architecture and interior design firm producing workplace, retail and residential designs. What makes Tatiana different from your typical designer is that she has a long, illustrious and varied resume that belies her highly strategic approach to solving any and all problems.

I wanted to interview Kelly to discuss her take on the place of women within the profession and what she has done to carve a spot for herself in this industry, while overcoming the challenges that being a very young, dare I say precocious designer bring in a field where careers are rarely taking off before the age of 40.

Tuesday Feb 16, 2021

Single Serves ep. 202 - Doran on Purposeful Architecture

Tuesday Feb 16, 2021

Kelly Doran is an architect, Principal at MASS design group, a non-profit architecture firm focusing on purpose-driven work. Kelly is also a professor at the Bartlett and last but not least, a fellow Canadian hailing from Winnipeg.

I wanted to interview Kelly to learn about MASS, what they do, how they work and what's unique about them. I wasn't disappointed. I'll let you judge for yourself, go ahead and take a listen.

Wednesday Feb 03, 2021

Single Serves ep. 201 - Hoffman on Marketing

Wednesday Feb 03, 2021

Bob Hoffman speaks with us about his long and illustrious career as an ad exec. Now retired, his second and equally successful career as a writer and a speaker has led him to write 5 best-selling books on advertising. Not only he speaks about fascinating subjects but he’s also very funny, with a deadpan sense of humour. My kind of guy.

Wednesday Dec 16, 2020

Single Serves ep. 110 - Jones on the Future of Architects.

Wednesday Dec 16, 2020

In which I interview Alan Jones, Architect, Professor of Architecture at Queen’s University Belfast and current President of the RIBA.

Listen to the episode to learn more about Alan’s efforts to reposition the architecture profession to stay relevant in the 21st century and its associated challenges.

Tuesday Nov 17, 2020

Single Serves ep. 109 - Billou on Succeeding in Down Times

Tuesday Nov 17, 2020

I interview Nicky Billou, podcaster, coach and self-described "millionaire-maker" about success in downtimes.

Credits:

Thursday Nov 05, 2020

Single Serves ep. 108 - Waugh on Innovation in Architecture

Thursday Nov 05, 2020

Andrew Waugh joins us to discuss innovation, the future of architecture and surprisingly, cars.

Credits:

Tuesday Sep 22, 2020

Single Serves ep. 107 - Belanger on Creative City Building

Tuesday Sep 22, 2020

Carol Belanger, City Architect for the city of Edmonton, is our guest on the latest Single Serves podcast. We discussed good design, procurement and how much effort it takes to build a good city that residents will take pride in. Surprisingly, consistency pays and the city has been consistently building high quality, innovative public buildings better than any other Canadian city, pound for pound.

Listen to the episode to learn more about Carol's work and its impact in the last 15 years.

Sunday Apr 26, 2020

Single Serves ep. 106 - Grice on Risk.

Sunday Apr 26, 2020

Gordon Grice is an architect, architectural illustrator, writer, editor of the Right Angle Journal and insurance consultant with decades of experience in the industry. We discussed risk and what it means for the design profession, the safety of roller coasters and how insurance manages risks. An engaging conversation on topics that are of critical importance for designers.

Saturday Jan 25, 2020

Single Serves ep. 105 - Johnson on Creativity and Innovation

Saturday Jan 25, 2020

Beck Johnson is a Senior Research Specialist in global workplace research at Haworth and she is joining me for this episode to talk about creativity and innovation in the workplace. We talked about what creativity is, how it applies to the design industry and how it can lead to innovation when properly channelled.

Friday Oct 25, 2019

Single Serves ep. 104 - Dreessen on Procurement

Friday Oct 25, 2019

Toon Dreessen, architect has been a relentless advocate for procurement reform in the architecture industry. While there has been some movement in the right direction, it's still not enough according to him and in some cases puts architects in very tricky situations. This is a debate that goes well beyond the scope of this interview, but listen in to learn more about the topic and be inspired to fight the good fight along with Dreesen.

Credits:

Post-Production: Sydney Martindale